Should PTA pay for staff training and not be told what the training will be?

[soweneo]

There was a really difficult PTA meeting for our local primary this week. The primary is headed by a very unpopular head and pupil and staff numbers have dropped by about a third in 5 years. Add this in to general decreasing budgets and the school must be very strapped.

The school have now asked the PTA for funding for 'essential staff training' and when some of the PTA asked for clarification the school admin assistant (the only member of staff who came to the meeting) said they can't clarify.

They have also asked for stationary costs, and when a member of the PTA asked if parents could do an amazon or similar wish list instead the school have said that they want a 'pot of money' for stationery instead.

The parents who have been in the PTA for a longer time and used to fundraise for enrichment projects and school trips, science weeks etc feel these requests go against the PTA's aims as listed on the website.

Some of the younger parents, new to fundraising, feel more comfortable about it.

I feel this is more of a leadership issue that needs addressing, but perhaps I am wrong? Whatever it is, the PTA is split down the middle.
The school had already asked for a £10 donation at the beginning of the school year for stationery.

As a treasurer if a committee wanted to spend so much money on something outside the remit of the PTA or without due diligence I would in order:
a) be firm in my objection
b) ask for an Extraordinary General Meeting to discuss the matter with the wider parent group
c) resign

In fact we never spent large sums at primary without knowing in advance we were planning to and getting it approved in principle at the AGM.

Thank you all so much! This is all so helpful, feeling much better already.

What’s your role on the committee?

in the nicest way - this is something the Chair needs to be dealing with.

They and they treasurer have to get themselves full of the facts, learn the PTA constitution inside out, and then give out the information officially.

It is up to the Chair, Secretary & Treasurer to stay firm.
If they are outvoted by everyone else on the committee they call an EGM.

If I was your friend or you, I would just run a mile.

@JustLyra I am just a member. Will pass this all on and leave to them to deal with it, but as I am a researcher I felt reaching out and asking experts would help! Thank you

By all means help them find the info, but it needs to come from them.

The last thing you want is the rude parent complaining that the Chair set their friends on her - Thats rather asking for a “the Chair is a bully” claim which will just muddy waters and make things more difficult.

You might want to ask about the Vat as well
You are paying amounts that include VAT but the school is getting the VAT back- what happens to that money?

I agree with JustLyra feed the chair info, but it heeds to come from her.

It might be worth the PTA having a chat with the chair of the board of governors about this.

The committee (Chair, Treasurer, Secretary) need to read their constitution and get clear on their facts.

Then they can deal with the aggressive new member.

No one should try to update any terms of anything without a meeting to discuss it. I don’t think that’s a good idea at the moment.

PTA Chair can absolutely have a word with the Chair of Governors too, but maybe not before clarifying with the Head exactly what the funding requests relate to.

Ignore the shouty member for now.

@SudocremOnEverything I was also going to suggest speaking to the governors. When I was a governor we would definitely have wanted to know about anything like this

The governors have no remit over the PTA
The only reason to speak to the Chair of Governors would be if a complaint was being made against the Head (assuming that is the route in the complaints policy)

So I had emailed the shouty parent what she had meant by what she said at the meeting before you all advised not to and this is what she said -
‘someone asked me to check with my lawyers at work before the meeting and they told me that the PTA could be reported to the charity commission for withholding funds if they won’t give the school what they are asking for if the funds are there in the bank account. there is a time limit on how long they can have funds and. It spend them’
so I said
‘surely no one in this lovely community would do that’
and she said
‘well you would hope not wouldn’t you. But there is clearly a conflict of interest as the parents don’t like the headteacher’
when I said that I had read the constitution and it seemed to me to say that pta could choose what to spend the money on she said
‘not if the headteacher has asked for something, and as the PTA don’t have a clear criteria for fundraising they could get reported if they say no to only funding training and stationery’ (there were no enrichment requests on the list at all).

so she clearly
a) planned this with another new parent
b) IMO would probably report the PTA if they don’t give the school what they want

I think the rest of us need to run for the hills and leave these couple of new parents to it! I feel even more confused now.

I think the chair, treasurer & secretary need to check the constitution / purpose of the PTA.
It would be a shame to just roll over to a few new parents (who presumably weren't involved in the raising of the money) just because they 'spoke to a lawyer at work' (and probably didn't give them an accurate story).

Are you a member of ParentKind / PTA-UK? Can they give advice?

I would be digging my heels in. Insisting on an EGM. School explain. New parents explain. PTA role holders explain. If the majority of parents want to just hand over chunks of money 'for training and stationery' that's one thing (and lose the people who think it is wrong). But not just a few parents with an agenda.

I think it’s more likely it was planned with the Head.

the committee needs to be very careful. They need to know their constitution inside out and keep themselves very right.

She is very wrong, but they need to be able to make clear how and why she is wrong.

What might be funded:

• visiting theatre show
• wet play activities or outdoor playground equipment
• ipads
• play trail
• costumes for shows
• musical instruments
• calm room for SN pupils & others
• SEN equipment eg special rulers or compasses for kids with dyspraxia
• bike / scooter racks
• bicycle training
• the list is endless

It would definitely be a no from me. Also I doubt the parents would be happy that their donated money would be going towards something that the school should be paying for themselves. If they can't balance their books then that is their tough luck, they can't expect to be bailed out

Is the PTA registered properly with the charity commission?

Trustees of a charity are obliged to ensure that funds spent meet the charity’s stated aims. I’d have thought that whether or not the trustees can freely choose to spend money on staff training or are obliged to only provide enrichment depends on how clear or not their governing document is.

@TeenDivided the shouty mum said that the school don’t have to put any enrichment stuff on the list they can ask for what they want.

@ClocksGoingBackwards
Yes it is and has a constitution through Parent Kind.
I don't know if we have a written funding criteria but this is what we say on the school webpage (changed the name to just PTA to protect the school!) Can this count as a written funding criteria if it is on the school's website?

The xxx PTA is a registered charity.
All our efforts and energy go towards something we passionately believe in – supporting the school to deliver an outstanding experience for our children.
Every penny we raise goes towards funding extra educational activities and equipment for the children to enhance their learning and development. We also help fund large projects that would otherwise not be realised due to the limits of government funding.
Over the last year the results of our fundraising efforts have enabled us to support the school across a variety of areas, from funding school trips and supplying multi-media learning resources, to purchasing new tablets.
The financial support we provide is a big part of what we do, but our aim is to also add to the life of the school and community. We work closely with the school and other local groups to offer many extra-curricular activities for our children to enjoy throughout the school year. These include events such as our famous fab family shows, movie nights and school disco to name but a few – all firm favourites in the social calendars of all the year groups

DS's primary PTA once paid for training for playground games leadership. That kind of training is fine. It gives children extra experiences in the playground and helps inclusion. Forest school training could be another benefit to the children.

Paying for safeguarding or first aid training for example should come from the school budget.

But I think the PTA is well within their rights to request visibility on what the money will be used for.

Shouty parent is bluffing. "Legal advice" is fictitious or mis-represented. The point of an independent PTA is that they are responsible for spending the money in line with their charitable objectives. Chair needs to toughen up (sad that it's necessary).

The simple answer to that is “No, the PTA have to operate within its constitution. Which is that Every penny we raise goes towards funding extra educational activities and equipment for the children to enhance their learning and development. We also help fund large projects that would otherwise not be realised due to the limits of government funding. There is nothing in the constitution stating that the school can demand whatever they want.”

The Chair needs to remember that just because she’s shouting loud doesn’t mean she’s right.