Should PTA pay for staff training and not be told what the training will be?

[soweneo]

There was a really difficult PTA meeting for our local primary this week. The primary is headed by a very unpopular head and pupil and staff numbers have dropped by about a third in 5 years. Add this in to general decreasing budgets and the school must be very strapped.

The school have now asked the PTA for funding for 'essential staff training' and when some of the PTA asked for clarification the school admin assistant (the only member of staff who came to the meeting) said they can't clarify.

They have also asked for stationary costs, and when a member of the PTA asked if parents could do an amazon or similar wish list instead the school have said that they want a 'pot of money' for stationery instead.

The parents who have been in the PTA for a longer time and used to fundraise for enrichment projects and school trips, science weeks etc feel these requests go against the PTA's aims as listed on the website.

Some of the younger parents, new to fundraising, feel more comfortable about it.

I feel this is more of a leadership issue that needs addressing, but perhaps I am wrong? Whatever it is, the PTA is split down the middle.
The school had already asked for a £10 donation at the beginning of the school year for stationery.

£10 is such a weirdly small amount for "stationery".

If training is "essential" it should come from core school budgets surely?

Our PTA would not fund staff training. That is not what our constitution states funds are for. If the school ask us for funding, they have to write a proposal and be totally transparent about where the money is going.

We also don't fund books or stationery- that should be the school budget.

I wouldn't have been happy either, but I guess if it was voted on by the committee and a majority supported it, then there's not much that can be done.

Sorry @Paq for my dreadful spelling, I always get stationery and stationary confused!

@Panicmode1 is your school fairly well funded at the moment? I feel that this must show that our primary is on its last legs. The unpopular head means that many children are now going to the school in next village instead which is bursting at the seams whereas ours now has two empty classrooms.

That would be a hard no from our pta. Fundraising is done for enrichment of the children not to subsidise the school budget. So we pay for coaches to enable outings. Christmas Puppet show for all the children. The slapdash approach of not even bothering to turn up and present your case. If a head is unpopular and failing to balance the books they will be moved on faster if the pta is not propping them up.

Was the tenner per child paid by parents or per child paid from pta funds?

Stationery has an e for envelope to remind you which is which.

Possibly £10 per pupil donation from parents?

Go back to look at the aims and remit of the PTA, it may not allow money being used for staff training etc. if this is essential training then the school should cover it. The only time I could see that training could be funded by the PTA is if it was to enable a staff member to deliver enrichment activities for the children. This might be a singing for fun course, perhaps a sports course. Stationary for a specific activity ie Christmas craft could also come under PTA but not paper and pens for general use. This money should be used to cover extras like Christmas disco, Christmas presents, perhaps a craft activity so we paid for a stained glass workshop.

@soweneo - we are lucky that it is, yes, and it's also a secondary school. That said, I sat on the primary PTA as well, and we would not have voted for those things either. We used to give the libary £2k a year, but would not have paid for stationery or for staff training. As others have said, the PTA funds should be for the enrichment of the children - for the 'nice to haves' not the essentials. Is there a School Business Manager? Could you have a meeting to discuss what PTA funds are for and why they are asking

I wouldn't support funding staff training unless I knew exactly what it was, and if I agreed with it. These days there are so many courses and training programmes offered that I would be opposed to.

@rageapplied £10 was paid from parents. They don't do any craft or art really anymore in school so beyond the basic paper, pencils, pens, glue etc....(which most of the older children bring in their own anyway) I wonder what the costs are. Maybe printing cartridges?

Also - and this is because the head has been caught out lying about small things to staff and parents - how do we know that it is actually being used for what the head says it will be used for? Especially as they won't tell us what the training is! Guess they have to keep a record of how it is spent in their documenting?
The PTA parents work so hard because they want to give all the children lovely extras.

I just wanted to clarify because the way you'd written it it seemed that the tenner was asked for from the PTA

Our PTA constitution (primary) allowed fundraising donations for the enrichment of the children’s education or to alleviate parent/family hardship. That meant we were happy to pay for coaches to swimming lessons, for example, or external music providers, or a donation per pupil for a class or whole-school trip.

Staff training absolutely was not a PTA donation expense. Or stationery.

I can see why school would prefer a stationery pot/budget rather than a wish list (guaranteeing they get the right stuff when they need it) but if they’ve already asked parents directly for a £10 per family/pupil donation for that purpose then they’re taking the piss. Our PTA would pay for specific craft materials for projects e.g. Christmas crafts, or Class X doing a clay workshop or whatever, but not glue sticks, pens and paper.

The fact the Head sent an admin to the meeting would have been a fairly instant ‘No’ to requests like that, tbh.

I had this once as chair of pta. The school requested new chairs for the classrooms.

It went against the PTA remit - PTAs are to enhance the children's academic experience, NOT fund the basics. No chairs, no essential training - ESPECIALLY if the head won't even specify what it's for. Very dodgy ground.

Never heard of this on the ptas I've been involved in. Pta fundraising is to fund extras to enhance kids education. Staff training and stationery is a basic thing that should come out of the school budget.

The only thing I can think of is that as pupil numbers are down the school is receiving less money per head and so is struggling financially? Perhaps ask one of the governors as they would be more aware of where the money was going, and how budgets are allocated?

I also think that as a longer-serving member of a PTA you do have a responsibility to ‘train up’ the newer parents and that sometimes makes you seem a bit of a jobsworth and unpopular but it has to be done.

Usually when you first join a PTA your first kid is in primary and you’re new to the whole thing. You want to be helpful and you’re full of ideas. You don’t yet realise there are obligations on you as a charity/organisation and legal hoops etc. Older members have to point that out.

I don’t know any PTA that would hand over money for non-specific training.

In fact the only time I’ve ever known a PTA fund training was a one off lighting training course. One teacher went then taught a few others. This allowed the school to put on school shows and make use of thousands of pounds of donated equipment. It wasn’t an expensive course though and was very much a one off.

What does the PTA constitution say about funding general unspecific things?

No. That's not at all on.

PTA drives what is being purchased and it's a democratic process. The head sounds like an arse.

My sincere apologies OP, I promise I wasn't picking you up on your spelling! After I posted I realised you were probably talking about a per parent donation.

Does your PTA have a constitution? Or anything written down about purpose/aims?

The head sounds dodgy. Not what PTA funds are for at all.

So one of the new parents said that parents should have no say in what the money was spent on, that it is the school's money and they can choose to do what they want with it. She also said if parents don't agree then they could be in trouble with the charity commission!!! She shouted so much that the older parents (who do all the hard work and hold all the key roles and have done for years) were left feeling like they were bad people for even questioning it. One of them, who does so much and puts her heart and soul in to it, was left in tears. Another new parent said the old parents were bringing 'bad energy' if they didn't agree with giving the school what they have asked for with no questions asked, and that they should 'trust school'.
These older parents have now said they will step back as they can't agree with it, and funnily enough the new parents have suddenly realised how much work they will have to do to even begin to match what was already being done in terms of fundraising.

Shouty parent is (a) factually wrong and (b) a bully. Is she in bed with the head?

It needs someone confident to point out where she’s wrong, especially with things like the charity commission or any grant funders.

Lots of people don’t understand that PTA money isn’t the schools (including lots of heads).

Theyll likely back down when they realise how much work is involved in running it themselves.

You need to look at your constitution to see what you can pay for! The charity commission can be brought in if you go against your constitution (providing you are a registered charity).

Do not pay anything until you've read this and know you are not breaking your own rules. As Trustees you can be prosecuted (rare but possible) for giving money for a project not within the rules.