I am so upset about dd at school yet I cannot seem to get through to her teacher without her thinking I'm being too direct or difficult and confrontational....Please help me sort this out

[foxinsocks]

I am sitting here at work and AM BUSY but can't get this out of my mind.

Poor dd.

The last years, yr1 and 2, she had an OK time at school. SHe loves reading and is v good at spelling, is a head in the clouds type child and has problems with her writing. Her last 2 teachers really brought her on and she was v near the top in spelling and v proud of this fact (the only thing at school she was proud of - she doesn't much care for the rest!).

This year, yr3, she has a v difficult teacher who has a reputation for being v hard on the younger, immature ones (dd is August) and for heaping praise and rewards on the elders (so 1 or 2 children come in early to put chairs out and it's always been the same 5 or 6 older children etc.). Dd has been in tears many times because of her, has been denied a pen because her writing is too poor and gets kept in at break times to finish her work.

Now, she was streamed into spelling group 3 out of 5 (after the teacher told us she would be in no.2). I queried this at parents evening and was told it was just a standardised streaming and she would be moved if it was incorrect. She hardly ever gets one wrong. In the big test 2 weeks ago which she forgot to tell us about (and didn't practise for), she got every single one right. SHe told us she was going to be moved up and was REALLY pleased (and we were proud) as this is the ONLY thing that is going her way.

Except she hasn't been moved up :-(. SHe went in yesterday and she's in the same group and the nanny said she fought back the tears the whole way home. She didn't get on with this teacher anyway, now she doesn't want to go to school at all and tbh, I can't blame her.

I can't post much today because I must get on but part of me is thinking WHY ffs am I getting upset, it's JUST spelling, let her get on with it and the other half is thinking that this is the straw that has broken the camel's back, she now hates doing any work because this teacher has so disincentivised her and NOW, the one thing she was enjoying doing well at, they seem to be ignoring and this has been going on now for a term and a half. She also tells dd she is near to getting a writing pen and then never gives it to her.

The teacher doesn't get dd and she doesn't 'get' dh and I. We are not pushy types at all - I'd quite happily never go into that school but we both feel she is being hard done by and she seems to be ignoring any request we make to her about dd and her progress (other than sending home endless 'extra' worksheets which she seems to think will miraculously improve her writing). Now I hate doing down teachers but I really am lost as to where to go next without making a huge kerfuffle.

Doing down teachers isn't the same as doing down 1 teacher- theres a crap member in any profession.

In all honesty she has no right to decide if you are being difficult. If she is failing to respond to your genuine and valid concerns about your child, esp. as she ahs a rep for this, take it a step highr and go to the Head.

thanks Peachy.

You think I'm justified in doing that?

Fox, I think you need to go in and talk to the teacher. That's not being pushy. Your DD is unhappy at school and the teacher can help.

Is this C**s school btw?

Humm, think I'd probably not quite go to the head yet, personally.
But of course you are absolutely right to need to have this out with the teacher - it sounds like it's making your poor dd very unhappy.
When you say she ignores requests to date - how have these requests been made/what has she ignored (just trying to work out her modus operandi

go to the head
apart from the (secondary IMO) issue of which spelling set she is in, this is actually about the teacher destroying your dds self confidence. not putting her in the set which she was promised is one example of that, but you have others. you need to point out to the head that your dd is an august child, she was fine in the previous two years, but this teacher is undermining her in areas she finds more difficult viz her writing, and not building her up in the areas in which she is excelling viz her spelling.

you don't want to start a war with the teacher, and tell the head so, but say you are slightly at the end of your tether and wonder if the head can advise you how to proceed, because the current situation is adversely affecting your daughters love of learning and, in fact, her desire to go to school at all.

perfectly justified IMO

Oh it's so hard. With a more reasonable teacher you could go in, explain it just as you have here, and the teacher would realise how important it is to your dd (and she is good at spelling so it is justified) and move her up. And the problem would be solved.

But she doesn't sound reasonable. I know the type - there is one at our school - ds1 missed her but ds2 will have to run the gauntlet when he goes into Year 2 (parallel classes so he has a 50/50 chance).

I think you have to go in and talk to her. Be as reasonable and non-confrontational as you can (I'm not saying you would be otherwise...) Stress how unhappy your dd is - how much of a difference it made to her in Yr 1 and 2 to be thought of as good at spelling and how much it meant to her when she thought she was about to be moved up (also how disappointed she has been to keep thinking she is on the verge of getting a pen and then it doesn't happen - that is really bad of the teacher, not fair!)

That's all you can do...appeal to her better nature (and hope she has one). Maybe, even if she doesn't 'get' dd (or you and dh) she will accede to your request just to get you off her back Oh it is so hard - I do sympathise. It's horrible when they are having a hard time at school and you know what the solution is but are dependent on the goodwill and co-operation of a flaky teacher (and I'm not down on teachers as a rule either - but this one sounds eerily like the one I'm dreading ds2 getting in September!)

(oh, it's marthamoo, btw. I'm sick of typing that).

Oh Foxy.

Perhaps give the teacher one more go before going to the Head.

Ring up the school this lunchtime and leave a message asking her to call you. When she does, tell her you'd like a meeting and arrange it then.

When you go in, have a list of things. Try not to get derailed down the 'I know she does this' and 'I know she does that' but keep to your list.

Listen to what she says. Keep it clean and simple. Stick up for dd basically, explain that you are concerned about her confidence - not necessarily concerned about the spelling group.

It's taken me years to work out how to do it. And as you know, I only managed to put it into practice the first time the other night! And ds1 is 10 fgs.

I wouldn't go straight to the head teacher. I certainly would make an appointment to see the teacher and say more or less what you said in you OP (I'd miss out the bit about the teacher having a reputation for being difficult and would avoid the use of ffs )

The teacher appears to be setting targets and then changing them once your DD has achieved them which is really unfair. It might be an idea to set up an update appointment while you are there for say three or four weeks away to see what progress is being made. If that doesn't work then you need to see the head teacher.

I am sitting at my desk crying. I don't know why this upsets me so much .

I think I will send in dh. Last time I spoke to her, she spent the whole time saying how awful dd was and she wasn't up to the work etc. and then pulled out her NFER test that she had just done and 'found it hard to explain' the exceptional result she had achieved in literacy because that wasn't the child she saw but we never had this problem with any other teacher. I sobbed my eyes out at home.

Oh, and I agree - if you get nowhere with the teacher after this attempt then go to the head. You can't let dd's confidence continue to be undermined so badly for another two terms.

We were streamed for maths at primary school - and the teacher I had for maths (for the whole of juniors - so year 3-6) used to (laughingly) refer to her maths group as the "divvie" group and several times said of me (to my face and in front of the whole class) "you really are hopeless/useless/rubbish at maths, aren't you?"

Now I'm not great at maths - but she undermined my confidence so much that I was terrified in maths for the rest of my school career (I would never speak up when I didn't understand something, for fear they would find out I was an idiot). At secondary school I was in the top set for maths and I did (just manage to scrape) an O' level. But I didn't shake that feeling of "I can't do maths" til I was an adult and had a job where I had to do mental arithmetic (and found that, when I didn't panic - I wasn't too bad at it).

That was a long waffle...but, anyway, I hope you get it sorted. Poor dd and poor you.

Just read your last post - she sounds like a complete cow

"she has been denied a pen because her writing is too poor and gets kept in at break times to finish her work"

This is just so cruel, and so crushing to anyone's self-confidence, let alone a young child.

I would speak to the Headteacher if there is a communication issue with the class teacher.

oh foxy

I was beginning to agree with everyone else that you should see the teacher first, but it sounds like you HAVE seen the teacher first. I can't believe some of the things she said about finding it hard to explain the results in literacy etc. FWIW my daughter is a complete daydreamer and must be slightly annoying for teachers, but she is bright, and does v well on tests. They say things to me like "well she is often completely on another planet in the classroom, seems not to have heard a thing, but obviously she is taking it all in because she does very well on the tests, so we aren't worrying about her". SURELY that is the point?

Either have one more meeting with the teacher (which I think you MUST go to, to hear what she says, take DH with you too if you like and see if she is better with a man in the room, sometimes, pathetically, they are more circumspect and thoughtful) or else go to the Head and set out what you've said here. Possibly ask to move her to another class to see how that goes? Although disruptive, might be better than having her confidence battered for another half a year. Good luck! Your DD sounds bright and lovely.

Oh don't cry Foxy

Oh no DO cry actually, just with the stiffening cocktail.

Have a weep. Then stiffen your resolve, and both go and see her? You will know what you want to say then.

Stick up for dd.

It reminds me a bit of that meeting I had with ds2's teacher, where she started off on the back foot because she thought I was going to give her a hard time, and so all the wires got crossed.

Have a weep. Leave a message. Make an appointment. Be clear in what you want to say - expect her to behave professionally in return. She probably will.

Oh and point out that her comment that "she 'found it hard to explain' the exceptional result she had achieved in literacy because that wasn't the child she saw" is INCREDIBLY telling. It isn't the tests that are wrong and her perception that is right, it is the tests which provide evidence of her WRONG perception of your dd. What and arrogant woman to interpret it the wrong way around! Who does she think she is? Grrrrr

your second post says it all. Go and see the head. Honestly it sounds a really odd way to treat a child.

Oh I am sorry about all this Foxy.

is there are second class in the year that your dd could be transferred to.

being in this teacher's class clearly isn't working and won't work if the head comes down on her (last thing you want to do is to give her further reason to be shitty with your daughter).

she needs not to be with this teacher clearly...

i'm so sorry it sounds really difficult....probably even more so for you than for dd...
xx

What PPH said, both times.

Also, could you ask the teacher what the specific targets are to get a child moved up from group X to group Y? And to get eg. a pen for writing?

If she's setting those kinds of arbitrary hoops for children to jump through (which I really think is wrong, btw) then she should be prepared to be able to spell out exactly what the required standard is, and specifically what your dd needs to achieve in order to get there. Otherwise it's open season for the teacher to use the promise of it as a form of underhand bullying.

I'm rather that the children are quite so aware of which is the 'top' group, though -- my dc always had some idea of the pecking order of the groups, but they were done on a mix of ability and behaviour, so it wasn't so absolute. Your dd's setup sounds very rigid and competitive for 7yo children.

she reminds me of a chemistry teacher who hated me who looked me square in the fact the week before my gcse and told me i didn't deserve more than a d.

got an A didn't I BEEEATCH.

I had a geography teacher who wouldn't teach me because I wasn't british . At the beginning of each lesson he would send me, Dallal (Bangladeshi) and Lola (Nigerian) out of the class on some spurious reason. EVERY LESSON in my O level year. I had NO teaching. Isn't that awful? When my mother complained to him at a parents evening and said "how is she expected to pass her O level Geography?" he said "My son hasn't got any O levels and he is doing fine". AND this was a private school so we were paying for this marvellous attitude.

Anyway. Off thread but I feel better getting that out. I got a C despite no teaching though

Oh dear Foxy, poor you and poor dd.

This teacher sounds like a right pain in the neck. I definitely think you need to speak to her again and try to get her to understand, and if she still doesn't get it or reacts badly to your totally reasonable discussion, then go to the head.

I don't think you should drink cocktails until after lunch though.

PPH how completely shocking!

I had a teacher who used to send me out the room every time we did geometry, because my pencil wasn't sharp enough, and she hissed 'you have no idea what you are doing.'

That was weird. But we were all older then.

Foxy's dd is in Y3.

Though tbh Foxy I think sometimes teachers come across like this because they are exasperated or whatever, but they don't actually Dislike your child. It just feels that way.

Ring up. Make an appointment.

And definitely add Frog's thing about what she is expected to achieve re the pencil/pen thing.

foxy I am so sorry and I sympathise 100% as you know.

I completely agree with pph.

I think what improved things for my dd1 was me actually getting cross with the staff. I really thought I had blown it after being very sharp and 'strict' with dd1s teachers. I was also sharp and strict with dd1! But things improved hugely after this.

I 'lost it' (actually stayed dangerously calm and quiet) one morning and sat with her teacher and made her tell me exactly what dd1 had to do to to improve in her eyes. I then told her that if dd1 achieved these things (handwriting, spelling, concentration) I would expect her to be moved up a group, given a pen and the various incentives they use (that hitherto she had been constantly missing out on). I said that I would come back in three weeks to see if she had 'kept her side of the bargain' adn that I would 'appreciate the carrot, not the stick'.

I did leave thinking that this was do or die and if they basically dissed us by not changing their attitude towards dd1 I would have to seriuosly think about moving her.

But it worked . I think they are terrified of me now but quite honestly I couldnt give a tinkers cuss

[hides shaker from Boco]