Do your homework and work hard or you'll end up working in a bloody factory!

[mids2019]

This message was a lot in the 70s where I grew up.

Absolutely inappropriate now but is there a grain of truth in this approach (rephrased of course?)

I'm a teacher. I would never say this to the children I work with, but I do to dd, although I use Macdonald's rather than factory.
The only career I've made her promise not to go into is teaching.

How insulting.

I've been thinking a lot about this lately.

I do think qualifications open up opportunities. I'll encourage ds to reach his full potential. I don't think I will use manual jobs as the threat though.

My step dd has learning difficulties and struggled to get qualifications. After 3 attempts she still doesn't have the maths pass that employers insist on. She is a fantastic person with lots to offer. She HAS worked hard and would be happy to do the work that other people are using as examples to scare their kids into work.

I also feel that I was sold this line, I worked hard and got good qualifications, yet I've only ever had average jobs, often the people senior to me are less qualified. So I know there is more to career progression than qualifications.

To what extent does parental background (and arguably) privilege have in the advice given to children about their future life prospects?

Premiership footballers' some and daughters may or (may not) be academic but in reality not many will end up in manual low pay jobs (Romeo Beckham?)

In a more general sense children of doctors,lawyers,academics etc. to my knowledge tend not to end up in jobs such a cleaning.

Is there an argument that the fear of poverty or hard undervalued labour tends to be used with poorer communities (or is this wrong?)

Personally I believe there is systemic lack of social ability in this country which is slowly being addressed over the decades but a lot more needs to be done. There is also an element of middle class protectionism about professional entry for their offspring that again is being tackled but still exists.

Aren't most nail bars just money laundering fronts?

I don’t think we should be encouraging children by putting other people down. I much prefer the approach that education gives you choices. But jobs like cleaning, factory work, bin collection and the like are all valuable - we need someone to keep the hospitals clean, to collect our rubbish, and to make the things that we all use. Many of the jobs that could be used as a ‘work hard or you’ll end doing this’ type of warning are also the ones that were designated as vital
key-work not so long ago because society couldn’t do without them.

I have a degree and thousands of pounds of student debt, but I’m now doing a skilled manual job that I retrained for, and it’s the happiest I’ve ever been at work. All the jobs I did with my degree were stressful and full of office politics that I wasn’t equipped to deal with (I think I may have some undiagnosed neurodivergence, DS has been diagnosed and it’s really made me think).

I struggle with this concept too. Teachers always say they’re overworked and stressed etc - but they try and put off people from becoming teachers. Then teachers complain that there’s a shortage of teachers, under staffing and that nobody wants to train to become one.

it’s such a weird toxic mentality. It’s widespread all over Mumsnet.

Under a different name I once started a thread about becoming a teacher and asked for help and advice. I had barely any support and the responses were all “don’t do it, we are on our knees!”

Tbh I would give similar advice to my own dc, but as a teacher I certainly wouldn't phrase it like that. It would come across as disrespectful to people who do (vital) manual and/or relatively unskilledjobs, especially if I were talking to a group of kids who were quite likely to go down that route themselves and whose parents had.

Dated but true

Doesn't really fit with growth mind set approaches

Mojokonoko.

This is an amazing post. Thank you. You put so much into words - e.g. about spotting what is needed, and asking questions people haven't yet thought to ask.

@DecimatedDreams

To what extent do teachers as a profession need to articulate that graduate jobs lead to a better quality of life so that the students are motivated to do well in exams and ultimately exam success is how schools (and teachers?) are judged?

Do teachers have a professional duty to promote academic aspiration despite harbouring personal doubts that a holistic level this is not the be all and end all to life?

Obviously you don't know me, but I never say I'm overworked. My job is lovely, I am incredibly busy which I love and I earn a great salary. However, I do not want my dd to become a teacher for lots of reasons, not least because I feel the job is now too prescriptive and child development is secondary to results.

I notice teachers in 2022 on this thread would definitely use the phrase in the OK to the class so things have moved on. There was a heartbreak post of a girl reduced to tears as her mother worked as a cleaner and the teacher was using cleaning as an example of low aspiration to drive his students.

However with their own children the advice may be a little different?

Couldn't agree more. Look at what happened during lockdown. The country would have ground to a halt if people in low-paid, low status jobs like stacking shelves in a supermarket, doing deliveries, cleaning hospital wards and so on hadn't just got on with the job, making it possible for the HCPs, power and telecoms workers the rest of us relied on to do their essential work as well.

Meanwhile a lot of people doing office jobs were unable to work at full capacity for a while because of childcare issues, illness etc. Did the world grind to a halt because the marketing, social media, PR etc executives weren't working? Of course it didn't. And yet, who gets paid more and gets more status?

I wince when I hear people talking about cleaning toilets, stacking shelves and working on a production line as bad jobs nobody would want to do if they had any choice. Somebody's got to do all of those jobs! Why aren't we paying more to reward those willing to take on these less attractive jobs? Why were we daft enough to just sit by and watch while successive governments abolished our hard-won employment rights and left us with the zero hours contracts, gig economy, inadequate pensions and no job security we have now?

I was bought up being given the same message - there was a large biscuit factory near us and you would see the women queuing up for the bus in the morning, wearing their hair coverings ready to work in the factory. The men mostly worked down the pits (as I lived in a mining area).
My DD2 is an engineer in a manufacturing plant - so basically works in a factory ….but is well paid and does have choices as she has qualifications.
As previous posters have said, it is about teaching your children that it’s good to keep options open and get what qualifications you are capable of.

You sound like an excellent teacher!

@DecimatedDreams thanks for replying and explaining. I really appreciate that x

It was the low paid jobs that suddenly were essential during the pandemic.

Or rather the people who do them were the expendables, peoples right to buy a spa was more important than a retail workers health
There was a time where 'work hard at school or you will end up in a dead end job' was used. I know my DS with a degree felt conned that it would lead to a good job. It's now the equivalent of a education leavers certificate. Whilst educational attainment is important most opportunities are through connections.

It was the low paid jobs that suddenly were essential during the pandemic.

Or rather the people who do them were the expendables, peoples right to buy a spa was more important than a retail workers health
There was a time where 'work hard at school or you will end up in a dead end job' was used. I know my DS with a degree felt conned that it would lead to a good job. It's now the equivalent of a education leavers certificate. Whilst educational attainment is important most opportunities are through connections.

I was brought up (by academics) to believe that your self worth = your job and career.

I have really struggled with my career because I’m so utterly miserable.

If I quit then my career is over which (in my mind) means that I’m worthless. Even if I find a suitable techie administrator role.

Its so bad that I’m having therapy for low self esteem etc.

goatinthegarden I wish I had you as a teacher when I was teenager!

I worked really fucking hard at school.
I failed maths gsce but even if I'd have achieved 100% on the exam, the highest grade for that paper was a D.
I grew up in a family (including extended) that bled the system by falsely claiming benefits.
I work in a factory now.
And I'm fucking proud of myself.
I always try my best.
I'm just not cut out for academia.

@paddingtonstares

There is one truth to that. Apparently parental wealth/status is still a major factor in terms of occupational outcome.

I work in a hospital and I get the impression that getting work experience as a medic is a lot easier if you have a parent working as a medic. If a student wishing to get work experience goes through official channels then suddenly consultants are busy and completely unable to dedicate time. I wonder if forgotten is repeated in other industries?

Making work experience fairly accessible is a challenge and is not a philosophy all organisations encourage.

I think it's important to add that the value of education extends far beyond enabling the student to get a job. I was fortunate to go to a very good school, back in the days before schools were turned into exam factories rated solely by league tables. We were taught to think critically and encouraged to read and discuss widely, well beyond the exam syllabus. Incredibly valuable life skills, far more important than rote learning and exam technique. My education has enriched my life immeasurably, and I'm hugely grateful for it, especially now that I am retired.

@IslandGardens, I'll put this bluntly. Your parents were wrong and have done you no favours. Find something that works for you in terms of both money and work life balance. The important things in life are being happy and having good health. A career that doesn't deliver on those fronts isn't worth having.