Do your homework and work hard or you'll end up working in a bloody factory!

[mids2019]

This message was a lot in the 70s where I grew up.

Absolutely inappropriate now but is there a grain of truth in this approach (rephrased of course?)

@Odile13

I am sorry about your mum and I hadn't considered such a situation.

I wonder if the factory (or modern equivalent) phrase was used predominantly in working class communities like mine where , yes, a lot of pupils historically went on to low pay non professional jobs. In the generation previous to mine mining was a huge employer in the region and education may have the route out of spending a lifetime working in a pit. (Mining actually brought in good wages though)

I agree that it is not appropriate to use that phrase without coming over as judgmental and snobby - I say that as someone who works in retail which is frequently sneered at as a career.

However, my DS worked it out for himself - he took a factory job during his Summer vacation 2020 - he realised that being a Uni student (hopefully) was giving him more opportunities than many of the colleagues he met at the factory would ever have.

From a school/teacher perspective it is in their interests to get pupils to get the best academic qualifications possible as it is their job and ultimately schools are judged on results.

Can a teacher therefore ever say GCSEs aren't that important as bin men get a decent salary. If teachers were to make students aware of say the remuneration of a train driver would it make the pupils less ambitious?

So who should work in a factory?

I agree with th first paragraph of this. It's a line that was definitely still trotted out when I was at school.

Interestingly, my DH works in a factory doing work that's unlikely to become automated. He earns far more than me, as a qualified solicitor. He worked his way up from an apprenticeship.

There's nothing wrong with the sentiment as such. You do need maths GCSE for most things. Good enough GCSE's open doors, more choices.

My dad's phrase was 'work hard and pass your exams, otherwise you'll end up stacking shelves in the local supermarket'. Tbh I didn't bother trying with subjects I hated, so this was actually quite effective. Not that I'd use it on my own DC!

@BeethovenNinth I hope you have explained to your DD that's not why people end up homeless.

I go with education/better grades means more choices too.

And also focus on the joy of learning and reading for its own sake. Fostering a life long curiosity and love of reading will never be a bad thing.

But I won't denigrate manual jobs because they are hugely valuable - and indeed can pay as well as white collar jobs these days

@Ragwort

That is interesting and yes phrases such as the OP possibly does have an elitist undertone (though actually thrown around in quite an earthy community!)

I have noticed that when it comes to academic achievement generally (not is a school but community setting) a.degree of diplomacy is absolutely necessary. There is another thread on whether we can be proud of our children which I think feeds into this as I think in the UK we are maybe correctly guarded about our children's academic performance.

Why is it always train drivers 😂 you do need your GCSE's to become one - so hopefully that won't totally demotivate them.

Why is it less ambitious to become a train driver?

I’m a teacher - I don’t use those words but I do tell them even in primary school it is the building blocks to having a job that will allow you to buy a nicer house and car.

I think it’s important kids understand why education is important

Train drivers are well paid and my DS would
love to be one so that would be no disincentive to him! I push the line that you want to keep your options open, but I never threaten with a “bad” job - my DP is doing a job which requires no qualifications at all other than hard graft but he enjoys it, is very good at it and some months easily earns the same as me (teacher on the top of the pay scale). He does however have qualifications so will never be trapped in that job which might make a difference in terms of happiness.

Actually I mostly said that if you start by keeping the rules and behaving well, you can get away with murder later as the teachers assume it wasn't you.

I’ve always said this and as a teacher it’s completely true!

Two lads DC1 was in school with have just completed their degrees as part of a factory apprenticeship program. They were paid the whole time they were studying and have no student debt.

@SweetSakura

I think that's the rub.

Ideally students should be doing well academically because of a passion for their subjects but in reality how many realise (cynically?) that good qualifications equate to good renumeration/quality of life in future??

I suppose what hasn't been considered is to what extent the vague notion of cognitive ability has to do with good academic qualifications (unscientifically the 'bright child'). Are those that naturally love reading do so because they have a natural intellectual capacity to absorb and cogitate on reading material?

I remember my form tutor saying that in 1991 in secondary. Work hard as you don’t want to work in a factory all your life.

Children are wiser than we were at the same age and see through stuff like this though. Although I get what you’re saying.

I have heard things from students on work experience with us say “University of Plymouth let anyone study…They have lower standards“

Some of them think that degrees are devalued because they’re so easy to obtain these days.

Although my degree is via University of Plymouth and I have a GCSE grade E in Maths so maybe they’re right 😭

On the whole this is absolutely correct. As with anything there are exceptions. A family member of mine left school without sitting any GCSEs due to bullying. He is now INCREDIBLY successful, far exceeding anything that any of us could have dreamed of due to his own, inner drive and belief in himself. I also work with someone who has no relevant qualifications to talk about on paper but holds a senior position in the organisation and has more common sense and quick thinking skills that all of our graduates put together. Quite frankly I don't know how some of them even even manage to get themselves dressed in the morning.

But not everyone is academic and can achieve high grades, however hard they try and without any diagnosed SEN.
There are thousands of jobs, and therefore millions of people, who earns the minimum wage. Implying that they all failed at school and didn't work is just not true. Who should be working in the factories, binmen, dinner ladies?

My DS, who's 14, would love to be a train driver too!

@Imogensmumma

Interesting. I think what you say is true but some may suggest that is quite a capitalist view (I agree with you factually). How does that view go down with the children?.Is there ever a danger that the children could look at their parents and view them as failures (materialisticaly and educationaly) if they are in unskilled jobs?

I think it is quite a nuanced subject and would find it difficult to quite know how to pass.on an educational philosophy to children (especially a large range of children)

I talk to my class (upper primary) about developing skills for the future. For example, everyone, regardless of their future career, will need to know how to budget money. I always do a lesson with them about paying bills and budgeting, in that lesson we discuss different salaries and the potential opportunities that come with them.

When we are working on something (for example, an art project) I talk about the skills we are developing and why they might come in useful in the future. If we were using fine motor, we would discuss how these skills would be useful if you wanted to do something with your hands, like be a nail tech, a surgeon, a chef, painter, etc. We talk about needing these skills for careers but also helping in day to day life and for developing hobbies and interests to keep us happy and healthy.

You don’t need to be unpleasant or elitist in order to encourage children to work hard.

Sorry I chose train drivers as a quick (maybe too quick) example. of a non degree job that can pay well. (I will not being strikes into the conversation!)

I suppose the worry with saying it is that it somehow reinforces the rhetoric that people on low paid jobs just don’t work hard enough and poverty is a choice.

It’s inappropriate because it’s putting other people down, you don’t know that factory workers didn’t work hard. A better phrase would be, work hard and you’ll have options to be whatever you want.