Do your homework and work hard or you'll end up working in a bloody factory!

[mids2019]

This message was a lot in the 70s where I grew up.

Absolutely inappropriate now but is there a grain of truth in this approach (rephrased of course?)

We really shouldn’t be skewing education at all. We should be giving all young people the opportunity to understand the range of work and life opportunities out there. Why should we reinforce people into their boxes just because of where they were born and not think about their wishes and abilities.

Ive done a lot of work with adult learners over the years, including mature students at two unis, one RG. Many of them are immensely capable and highly motivated but had no encouragement at school or awareness of what they could do. It’s a disgrace.

It also at the other end of the scale leads to mediocre people in highly paid leadership roles cf. current government.

I think it's divisive to talk scathingly about certain jobs. Some people will enjoy the creativity of designing original nail art and will like to be practical. Working on the bins has camaraderie, a sense of being appreciated in the community and job security.

There is more to job success than having a good qualification. There is the accumulator factor. Lots of people in London choose to work as gardeners or handymen, rather than in the career they trained for, because the number of contracts - easy in a densely-populated area, makes cramming in lots of projects lucrative. And as a trained on the job gardener, you can enjoy encouraging butterflies etc and feel your values are part of your job. And be fit in the open air, instead of becoming unfit in a sedentary job.. Knowing about growing fruit and veg can also save you money and give you a deeper sense of satisfaction - so jobs which fit your other interests can make you fulfilled. 2022 is not the year and time to expect to work on a well-paid job for life, just because you've achieved good exam results. Plenty of graduates can't work in the field they trained for.

Mental health is a consideration too. Getting the work/life balance manageable is what allows some people to be mentally strong enough to cope with health challenges and to create a happy vibe. People should be ready to adapt and to be flexible and to work out how to live on little money. Earning a lot as a lawyer or other professional is probably the best path, if you can do it, but be prepared for things not to go to plan and have side hustled in mind to make sure you can survive - because life is unpredictable.

Life isn't predestined by exam success, it's more of a game. Don't forget those threads about childcare costs and how some, including posters who work in academia can't afford them. Somebody in a job which doesn't require qualifications might do well in life and be happy because their own parents are healthy and willing to collect the kids from school.

Most people don't have university degrees. As a child I thought almost everyone had one. School teachers made it seem that way. University or the scrap heap.

I was under the impression as a young person that because I had not got qualifications, there was no possibility of ever getting a job or doing well in my life. I despaired and did not try. I had heard the message clearly for so many years at school. I thought it was true.

When I finally entered the workplace, however, I found a completely different world. I found it easy to do well and bounded into senior roles within a few years. At work, to do well, you just have to understand what the business needs and deliver it. That's all you have to do, and that is simple. It might be more money, it might be staff, or premises, or a working practice or a vision or a patent. Just find out what it is and then produce it. There are no exams involved and no sitting around pointlessly for years bored out of your mind.

Crucially, to do well in business you don't answer questions someone already knows the answer to. You answer questions nobody has understood to ask yet. There is almost no relationship between what is praised at school (diligence and blind obedience) and what makes you successful in business (insight and audacity). I wish I had known this ten years earlier in my life. It would have saved me a lot of heartache. I am sure there are many children in school today being told they are headed for the scrap heap that, frankly, I would leap to hire.

I also suspect that our children's generation are not necessarily going to have the luxury of focusing on how to get nice houses/nice cars/nice holidays. They are going, above all, to need motivation and resourcefulness, to adapt to changing circumstances and help solve or mitigate some pretty serious problems. So it's those - and ideally a sense of vocation - I'm keenest to help my children to develop.

I tell my kids to work hard because the harder they work the better they'll do and the better they do the more choice they will have as adults.

It’s still good advice. Academic qualifications can still make all the difference in which options are open to you as an adult, and just turning up, paying attention and doing the work that you are set gets you a lot of the way there.

Working in a factory for many is great. Set hours/shifts. Do an extra hour you get overtime. Do shift work you get enhancements. You walk out the door at the end of your shift and leave the job behind. No unpaid overtime, limited stress, usually good working conditions due to unions.

I don't say exactly that to my children, but I do encourage them every day to work hard, listen at school and get the best grades they can so they can get a good job that will pay them well. And, yeah, if they don't then they've got less chance of that. Education gives you choices and I want my children to have the kind of choices that will bring them enough money for a comfortable life.

I think it's a bit outdated.

Factory line jobs in many places don't exist as manufacturing is done overseas with cheaper labour.
The factory jobs which remain are therefore more skilled/specialist.
Engineering, architecture, creative and the like will hold steady.
IT changes so fast anyone going into it has to pick the right area.
But most office jobs will be done by computer within 20 years (I'm a lawyer myself, and the big deals need fewer and fewer bodies to handle as the grunt work begins to be handled by AI) - paper shuffling careers are on their way out.

The prized jobs of the future are the manual, skilled jobs which everybody needs but can't do themselves - builders, electricians, medics, tree surgeons, hairdressers etc.

My DH messed up his education and his opportunities are quite limited

Out of our year group yes a number of people that did well at school did well career wise but there was also a few that didn't do well a academically that became millionaires. One in particular was and clearly still is very dyslexic. He now has a private jet, a yatch and multiple homes.It doesn't always equate.

I usually do a lesson where we look at the average UK salary and I give them the take home amount for that month in play money (the first shock is learning about NI and income tax). Then we look at average rents, council tax, etc. for the area. I take away their money until there is very little left. It gives pupils an awareness of the value of money and the things their parents have to pay for.

We discuss that many people in the UK have to live on less than the average salary and that some people have much more. We discuss other facts, like how benefits work and how they are important lifelines for some people, that two incomes in a household means more spare cash, children in nursery cost families more, etc. There is no judgement, only facts.

We discuss different careers and look at the average salaries for them and we discuss what subjects you need to work hard at to achieve them. We talk about popular careers such as being an influencer or a footballer and how hard they have to work/train and what they have to do to actually make money. We talk about academic careers, creative careers, manual careers. Not everything is about earning highly, my focus is on pupils being able to have happy and productive lives.

There’s nothing snobbish about wanting to have choices as an adult. There’s something very sad about telling your children to aim low. If they aspire to work on the bins then injure their back they face a pretty bleak life.

Another snooty thread akin to the recent one about only children of immigrants working hard in school.

I agree with this.

I have a good job and am lucky enough to be able to afford to eat out all the time and have nice holidays (not a stealth boast people, play nicely, please), and I remind my DD, who loves that lifestyle, that it comes from working hard at school. She has dyslexia and finds it really tough.

My point is, there's no need to drag other jobs and the people who do them down - focus on the positives of a good education.

Exactly why I do the job. I have had "better" jobs but none of them were worth the stress involved. But then I'm not materialistic so as long as I earn enough to pay the bills (on my very small bungalow, and my 4 year old small car), then everything else is a bonus. Plus I'm finished for the day at 1.30pm (start at 6am), home by 1.45, whilst those in "good" jobs are still slaving away. I call that a win, suckers.

If my child was a highly paid abs highly educated lawyer working miserable 70 hour weeks I would be sad for her

The double lawyer couple I know own their (very nice) home outright and are retiring next year aged 53. Sounds OK to me. Manual labour can be fine as a young person, but absolutely miserable in one's 50's and 60's. I am glad I put in the 70 hour weeks in my 20's (medic here) and am now reaping the rewards.

I always try to stress that the students need to work hard to get the best grades that they can because the more qualifications they have, the more options they will have on life. I suggest that they must have a certain lifestyle in mind for themselves, eg: housing, car, holidays etc and say that if they want all there things they have to work hard to get them and part of that is their qualifications.
I also point out that they are in competition with all the other students who are their age, most of them have never considered this!
I don't mind which job they end up with, everyone is different and we know we need a range of jobs to keep the economy spinning. However, I do want my students to have choices and options, not to be stuck in a job they hate because their qualifications are rubbish.

As a teacher I think homework is a waste of time so I’d never say this to anyone.

I also wouldn’t use an example of a factory worker, cleaner etc as I find it really insulting like those jobs are something to be embarrassed by.
And it’s why kids bully each other because of their parents jobs.

But I do say that working hard and education opens doors and the jobs that are NMW are often just as challenging if not more challenging than higher paid jobs needing a degree.

As a parent I always tell my DD to aim for a career that pays well as you can always do the other jobs if you want to but it just opens those doors.

My mum always gave me this advice as she has only ever done cleaning and never went to college or anything so struggles to find anything (or have the confidence to) apart from cleaning.

I went to uni and got a degree but ended up down a completely different path because it opened doors for me.
I also have various options because of my degree and I’m paid more and appreciated more simply because I went to uni.

I dont think anyone is suggesting saying 'dont worry about an education you can always do x, y, z job'
They are saying being rude about someone elses job that doesnt have high education entry requirements isnt a good method to motivate people. Calling a job low is snobbish. Saying its hard isnt.

Ultimatley gcses arent designed so everyone passes them. Some people however hard they work, wont be passing.

I struggle with this. I have two DDs , they both work hard. One is very academic and will get all As and sail through the education system. The other has severe dyslexia and dyscalculia and no matter how hard she tries she just struggles at school academically and does appalinglingly at exams /tests. Education is not set up for her at all and on paper she won't do as well as her older sister but she has worked just as hard .

If my child was a highly paid abs highly educated lawyer working miserable 70 hour weeks I would be sad for her

But your child wouldn’t be stuck working as a lawyer.

They could go PT and still be on a great income, have a career change to another high paying role or go and work NMW in a factory.

Having a good degree and job allows you choices and not to be stuck.

Many people who have always worked in factories don’t have as many options so are essentially stuck.
I would want my child to have options.

It’s also not just about the job itself but also about getting a mortgage, bank loan, having savings, good pension, early retirement etc.

I know someone who was a lawyer, saved up some money, took out a loan and then opened a surfing business.
He now spends all day on the beach teaching kids how to surf - he wouldn’t have been able to do that without first getting a decent education, job and wage.

He girl who does my nails is fully booked all day every day at a minimum of £25 per client. Very small over heads. She's doing very well for herself. So it's not a bad industry if you work hard

Education is not set up for her at all and on paper she won't do as well as her older sister but she has worked just as hard

Many colleges and unis are well equipped to help with students like your DD but if it’s not her thing look at apprenticeships as you still get a qualification with them.
I was looking at some the other day and was amazed at how many great ones there were!

My DH messed up his education as well, got shit A levels, got a 2.2 degree (albeit from a good course for his subject), but then went and grafted and chose work wisely and is now doing super well in his career, too earnings and a huge network.

I did brilliantly at A level, got a high 2.1 from a Russell group uni, made average career choices, had children, did some freelancing and now don’t do any work at all. I’m now retraining (negating the need for my uni degree) and volunteering.

What I mean to say is, exam results aren’t the be all and end all. What matters is having a cast iron work ethic and the ability to fail, learn, work harder next time, try and keep trying.