Slave to the fees

[Uhu]

On Monday, I bumped into a male colleague who wanted to know how the babies were doing. I asked him how his seven year old son was getting on and then he off-loaded on me the perils of private school fees and how much it was costing him and his wife. He said if I could get them into a good state school to do so because finding the fees every year was such a hassle.

In the first place, I had not contemplated sending my twin DSs to private school so I think his point was nugatory. Nevertheless, I did wonder why he bothered and he said it was because he did not think much of the state schools in his area. Fair enough but I'm sure that there are some good state primary schools if he bothered to look. Ultimately, I did not feel sorry for him.

Yesterday, I saw another male colleague and he started telling me about problems he was having with a bullying boss and that he would like to leave the organisation. However, he is well paid, over 50 years old and does not feel he would find a job that would pay him what he earns now. He has a daughter (age 13) at private school and he said that was the main reason that stopped him from leaving. He needs to the pay the fees and at the moment feels trapped. I actually felt sorry for him because he is a humble guy and reading between the lines, he and his wife had to wait a long time before their daughter was conceived so obviously, they want to give her the best of everything. He also said that his wife wished that she had spent more time with their daughter when she was younger instead of working full time. Despite the private education, it is not a happy household and I sense there is resentment on the daughter's part. I felt sorry for him because he is a decent and humble guy.

It made me think that most parents do want the best for their children but there are some things that money cannot buy. Like spending time with them when they need it. Is it worth sending your children to private school if you have to struggle to find the fees? Children are not stupid and I'm sure they pick up on the anxiety so how does that make them feel? I firmly believe that if a child has ability and supportive parents, it will succeed at any type of school. Is being a slave to the fees ultimately worth it and what is the emotional cost to the family?

Batters, you have summed up my feelings well when you say "I don't want a "satisfactory" school for my dd, I want a blooming brilliant fantastic one where my child is happy at that allows her to reach her full potential (and not just academically). And that is for us at least going to be the real issue when it comes to secondary education."

Of all the schools we saw, one stood out as being 'a blooming, brilliant fantistic one' a happy place that would help my son meet his potential. And that was our local grammar school. Not just because it was a grammar school. The other grammar schools did not have quite the same vibe. OK I only went for visits, read the reports and spoke to parents with children at the school. I have no real in depth knowledge of the local schools. Of course I want my son to go to this particular school more than any other. Yet realise the chances of him getting there are not very good as the school is oversubscribed. So I am having to try and forget I have ever seen it, just so that I won't be disappointed when we get the letter in March telling us which school is taking ds.

Tigermoth, I am so sorry that things are so difficult for your son. I', also amazingly pleased that the school has picked up on this and he has the sort of parent who will sort things out. As you say it isn't irreperable. I could see the same sort of thing happeneing with my son at the local primary, which is part of the reason thatwe made the choice we have. Headache is now back, and I'm going to see the doc today

hope you get that headache sorted, hmb. Thanks for the compliment. I do my best but I am pretty powerless to when it comes deciding what state secondary school my son ends up at. It's all in the hands of the LEA now.

My HOD doesn't have any children but she always says that if she had a boy he would have to go to grammer or privayte school because 'boys need it more'. And she has taught in mixed comps and all boys grammer schools.

I'm goign to try to see the doc today as this headache has now lasted more than a week and I'm begining to worry a bit.

Peer pressure can be so important (positive and negative). We have had good kids who have 'gone off the rails' as a result. On the other hand we have also had a lot of sucess placing single 'difficult' children in tops sets. Once the 'difficult' child reaslises that they don't have an audience/ fellow travellers their behaviour improves beyond all recognition. This isn't an argument for mixed ability tho, because if you have two or more in a class they can wreck the whole lesson. Classroom dynamics can be very interesting things

Tigermoth, just dipping in here to say how sorry I am to hear of your lovely, naughty ds1's latest scrape. So glad to hear the school are on the case and supporting you in nudging him back into the right social circles.
Hope your headache gets better soon HMB.
Have avoided posting on this thread mainly because we are having to make financial sacrifices to pay ds' school fees at his inexpensive, non-selective, private primary school but don't complain about it because we could have sent him to an OK local state primary - didn't get a place at our preferred excellent one, not surprised about that. But as Batters so succinctly put it, we don't want *OK" education for our children, we want them to love it and be inspired by it. We've gone a modest route (there are some big swanky preps in our part of SE London) because what we wanted was the small class sizes and a non-academically selective environment. We're not in it for state-of-the-art facilities, hot-housing or expensive uniforms, or status. How I wish the type of school ds is at could be available to everyone, I think all our children deserve it.
Uhu, if you are still reading, you may come to eat your words when it is time to look closely at your local school provision. Best of luck in your hunt for the right school for your children.
And I wonder if these men are the sort of corporate executives who don't feel they can say, "I love my children so much and think about them all the time", so they "moan" about the school fees because they perceive it as a socially acceptable way of demonstrating love and concern for their family. Bizarre, maybe, but that's the world of work for you.

This is a fascinating debate as in my town the best state school is really very very good (very impressive ofsted report too), people do a hell of a lot to get into it.... but classrooms are big (30+). I hear there is a lot of pressure on kids to do well but I know some parents "like" that.... so to each their own.
We chose to put DS in state school next to that one, it has a bad reputation though has much improved in the past 3 years. There are 15 kids in his class and the biggest classroom is under 25... there are quiet a few SN kids which I understand are well catered for..... but the reason it is not "liked" is because it's next to a council estate and half the kids form there....

So to me my DS is likely to be better off there... time will tell....

Just remember, all you hand-wringing liberals agonising about whether the local state schools are 'brilliant' enough for your little darlings, that by choosing private/selective education you are actively perpetuating the inferiority of the state schools. Make that choice by all means, but at least have the grace to acknowledge the social consequences of your purchase of privilege.

What are those social consequences, Honeyflower?

Are you planning to send you chilren/child to the nearest local school regardless of what it is like? Because if you are not you could be accused of perpetuating 'sink' schools you know.

Exactly, HMB.

I send my son to my local state school. Some people would consider it to be an innercity school. So far he loves it. He was in a private nursery before and the school has picked up where the nursery left off even though this must be a pain for them. I am grateful for their hard work.

On the subject of state Vs private the only thing I can't understand is when a family will almost bankrupt themselves to send their child to private school. I know of two families who are doing this. I am not exagerating. Ironically one of the parents critises the private school more than any other parent (who uses a state school) I know.

Interesting debate.

I send my son to my local state school. Some people would consider it to be an innercity school. So far he loves it. He was in a private nursery before and the school has picked up where the nursery left off even though this must be a pain for them. I am grateful for their hard work.

On the subject of state Vs private the only thing I can't understand is when a family will almost bankrupt themselves to send their child to private school. I know of two families who are doing this. I am not exagerating. Ironically one of the parents critises the private school more than any other parent (who uses a state school) I know.

Interesting debate.

You could also argue that by paying private school fees and by paying taxes and not sending your kids to state schools that your money was helping state school pupils who would otherwise have to share their limited resources with extra children.
It works both ways Honeyflower

Eaney, I've got NO problems with inner-city schools, I live in a city. I don't think any of us on here have, I just want a good education for my children. Plenty of inner-city schools do this, I fully agree. I don't happen to live near one that I could get a place in and was also right for my family circumstances (need Breakfast and afterschool care).

Is it safe to say that most of us send our kids to the best schools that we are able to?

How many people choose to send their kids to a sink school, when they have other options open to them? And mainly for the sake of upping the average socio-economic status of the school's roll?

I doubt anyone Ameriscot. I think that when it comes to your own family and your own children, principles probably go out of the window for most people.

When it comes down to it, you look after number one don't you? And why not, you owe that to your own children to make their life absolutely the best it can be.

TBH, I don't like the idea that at our local private primaries they heavily tutor their tiny classes to pass the 11+ so that they get into our fantastic state grammar schools (the girls grammar that I went to was 32nd in The Times the other week), while kids, like mine, who are in classes of 30-odd are perhaps less likely to get in. Those that pay for that private primary education could probably afford private secondary education but end up getting free education (fair enough) but those that can't afford private secondary ed and don't pass the 11+ are left with few choices.

However, I can't criticise those people - it's absolutely their choice and of course they are going to think of their own children 1st and do whatever they can for them individually.

I'm lucky enough to have a fantastic state primary to send ds's to so they will go there, but if they don't pass the 11+ at the end of it, I have to admit, I'd consider paying for an independent school rather than send them to the local comp, which is actually really crap (although a while off before ds goes so perhaps that will change).

Bovary, me too actually - I nearly deleted that one!

Actually Gobbledigoose that's my strategy (i.e. prep school and then hopefully dd will pass 11+ and get into one of the local very good grammar schools)

I know lots of people doing it - they tell me about it over dinner and it makes me feel a bit mad but at the end of the day - I can't argue with their choices - the system is there for the taking!

I could probably afford to send ds1 to a 'cheaper end of the budget' private primary but actually I don't like the fact that round here they are all single sex and all the parents are 'of a certain type' (and I'm talking locally, so no offence meant to anyone on here) - I'd personally feel rather uncomfortable in that circle of people.

I think it's true of most people that you and your children prefer to mix with like minded/similar circumstance people and that's what I'll be doing by sending ds's to the local state primary (and it happens to be fantastic - in top 200 in The Times if that means anything at all!!).