Slave to the fees

[Uhu]

On Monday, I bumped into a male colleague who wanted to know how the babies were doing. I asked him how his seven year old son was getting on and then he off-loaded on me the perils of private school fees and how much it was costing him and his wife. He said if I could get them into a good state school to do so because finding the fees every year was such a hassle.

In the first place, I had not contemplated sending my twin DSs to private school so I think his point was nugatory. Nevertheless, I did wonder why he bothered and he said it was because he did not think much of the state schools in his area. Fair enough but I'm sure that there are some good state primary schools if he bothered to look. Ultimately, I did not feel sorry for him.

Yesterday, I saw another male colleague and he started telling me about problems he was having with a bullying boss and that he would like to leave the organisation. However, he is well paid, over 50 years old and does not feel he would find a job that would pay him what he earns now. He has a daughter (age 13) at private school and he said that was the main reason that stopped him from leaving. He needs to the pay the fees and at the moment feels trapped. I actually felt sorry for him because he is a humble guy and reading between the lines, he and his wife had to wait a long time before their daughter was conceived so obviously, they want to give her the best of everything. He also said that his wife wished that she had spent more time with their daughter when she was younger instead of working full time. Despite the private education, it is not a happy household and I sense there is resentment on the daughter's part. I felt sorry for him because he is a decent and humble guy.

It made me think that most parents do want the best for their children but there are some things that money cannot buy. Like spending time with them when they need it. Is it worth sending your children to private school if you have to struggle to find the fees? Children are not stupid and I'm sure they pick up on the anxiety so how does that make them feel? I firmly believe that if a child has ability and supportive parents, it will succeed at any type of school. Is being a slave to the fees ultimately worth it and what is the emotional cost to the family?

We are lucky enough to be able to afford it. I know that many people are not. I work and so does dh. We have a comfortable exiitance, we don't have to go without to meet the bills. That said we don't have a very extravagent life style. neither of us are unterested is designer stuff, we are happy to waer old tatty clothes, not interested in flash cars, go camping /cravaning for holidays. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying we have to do these things so we can afford it, this is the stuff we would do anyway. Don't smoke, dh doesn't drink, we like a quiet life. We are not putting ourselves in debt to put our kids through school. As I said we are very lucky.

How on earth do people pay that with more than one child?? I'm not badly off - nice big house, affluent area, 2 cars blah blah, but I could not afford for example, £15,000 per term for my 3 to go to private secondary! WHO has £15,000 disposable income every term????

My gasters have never been so flabbered!!!

Best get back to my work and start saving!!!

hmb - ditto - could afford your fees but not £5K per term for each of 3 kids in secondary school!!!

Seriously - are you REALLY getting your money's worth at £5K a term???? I have my doubts about that because you could probably provide all the extras yourself for less!

We couldn't 'do' £5000 a term either. We also get some support from the RAF

There are some very wealthy kids in the school but most of them are not. Teachers, nurses, doctors, reasonably well off rather than loaded IYSWIM

Lets hope mine pass the 11+ and I don't have to pay for any of them!! One of them can fail but that's it

ha ha, that amount of money (£5K a term) is just making me laugh - I think you have to have more money than sense!!!

There is one family that goes to my kids school and they have 5 kids there! I don't know how the hell they afford it. They def don't seem to be well off

So they pay £7500 per term?! What a nightmare! Just think what you could be spending that money on if only the state comp was half decent! It's a sad fact that many of them are not.

Round here we have excellent primary schools and we have fantastic state grammars (in The Times Parent Power last Sunday my old secondary school was 32nd, the boys school was 110th and the other grammar that is mixed was 103rd). We've got one state comp (well, Technical College) which is amazing but it's really hard to get in. The others are pants and if mine don't pass the 11+ I couldn't send them to the local comp cos it's terrible. A long way off yet though so we'll see!

Tigermoth - thank you for your comments

Gobbledigook - Tortoiseshell is right the fees range from £800 to £1000 plus per term for primary school fees and secondary is approx. £1500-2000 plus for day school fees. If you board (come home at weekends) it's approx £4000-5000 plus per term and for those not resident in the UK it's even more. In addition all (summer and winter and dance if they do classical dance uniforms, musical instruments, textbooks, music/ singing lessons and so forth are charged seperately and as extras. Depending on your status - i.e. my mother was a single parent and I was a single legal guardian at the time, some schools have busuries and will help with fees and the cost of extras. In some cases where your child is particularly gifted / talented the school will allow them to continue with piano / music lessons if they are doing really well but you need to stop them because the cost is too much. It's different at each school and it doesn't happen all the time - it's very subjective.

Uha: oh dear you do say some pompous things. Originally you asked
'Is it worth sending your children to private school if you have to struggle to find the fees? Children are not stupid and I'm sure they pick up on the anxiety so how does that make them feel? I firmly believe that if a child has ability and supportive parents, it will succeed at any type of school. Is being a slave to the fees ultimately worth it and what is the emotional cost to the family?

The simple answer is yes it's bloody worth it and if its working for the happiness of your children and your self the emotional cost could not be worse than seeing your child sink in just some of the school environments described so far on this thread alone. State school was bad enough when I was there - a fair number of kids in the year below ending up in juvenile detention centres for ABH, GBH etc. A couple of stabbings in school, aqaintances of some pupils stabbed to death out of school hours. A significant number of girls leaving pregnant at 14, 15 and 16. Daily fights and brawls in the class rooms, teachers strikes and so on and so on - and it seems it has gotten worse and that was 1985 onward.

Sometimes money can remove these conditions and yes some parents will have to work harder than others to achieve that but paying for education doesnt mean that these parents don't have to help with homework and dedicate enormous support and time to their children like all parents should and normally do. In addition now I read here on this thread that many state school parents have to buy text books and equipment just like fee paying parents do. Many fee paying and state school parents may be in the position of having to pay home tutoring fees (£20 / £30 per hour) private ed buys a better classroom environment and better facilities but the role of the parent does not disappear you still have to support your children and we all know how much effort that takes. So its not all about privalege and steps on ladders - this simple blurs the issue. I believe parents should use fee paying and state ed to their advantage ( that's if they can get children into good schools on own doorsteps that is) that aside cost doesn't have to be endlessly on going. Perhaps parents could consider fee paying at the A Level stage or just the GCSE stage - it depends on the child. There are some excellent FE Colleges out there if parents dont want to incur costs at the A Level stage and there are some fantastic fee paying schools where you can really treat your child / children at the Alevel stage if you want better classroom environment and keep costs down?

So have I got this right - you pay £xK a term for private school but then you ADD ON text books, music, dance etc? So what the hell are you paying for?! It seems like a lot of money for not very much apart from newer, shinier environment and smaller class sizes.

People I know that are sending their kids to private primary next year are harping on about the extras but it doesn't sound like you are paying for those in the fees if you have to add the cost on top!

Heymissy - I think what Uhu was saying was that many parents probably work long hours in order to be able to afford private education so surely they are not generally going to be picking up their own children at 3.30/4pm and sitting down with them to do homework at a reasonable time of day?

Presumably she is thinking that many work long hours and in doing so sacrifice evening time with their children who are picked up by childminders/nannies or go to after school clubs. I understand that point because those parents that don't do those sort of hours and therefore perhaps don't send the kids to private school at least have from 4pm onwards every day to do activities with them or help with homework.

Fees in Sheffield seem much lower than others quoted here. The dearest Prep school works at out £1800 a term. The dearest high school is £2100 a term; the "main" biggest one is about £1500-£2000 depending on year group.

Note: must read whole thread before posting!!!

At our local private schoosls they do not have extra charges. Prep schools include dance and music lessons, all books, food, milk, fruit, swimming and wrap around care, and school trips that are "essential! parts of the education.

Local secondaries are similar - books, exams, tuition, before/after school care is included in the fees. Trips aren't though.

The wrap around care that my kids get means that I can actually go out to teach with the minimum disruprtion to them. They have one pick up and one drop off each day, without shuttling between home, school and childminder. They get to play with their friends from school when I have after school meetings etc. After year 3 they get supervised prep, when they do their homework, so when I pick them up we don't have to take more time to do the homework (which I would if they went to a child minder).

We don't pay for books or food either. We do pay extra for one on one music tuition and ballet, but those are after school activities run by external teachers. Trips do have to be paid for.

The uniform does cost a bit, but is exceptional quality and lasts. For example a duffel coat that did my dd for 3 year also lasted her brother another 2. There is also a second hand shop and most parents seem to use it at some point.

Hi Gobbledigook - 'newer shinier environment and smaller classes' Yep that's it, you got it in a nut shell and that's all it is in my opinion and in my experience and the costs can be high for some. For example our mother died unexpectedly of cancer and my brother suffered horrible bullying from other children about this in a fee paying environment. They thought it was hilarious to show my brother pictures of the world largest cancer tumour in science books and tease him until he reached the point of crying in front of them. Just because you pay fees doesn't mean you have to stop looking out for the welfare of your children. In the end the boys were removed and my brother wanted to transfer elsewhere anyway.

And yes you are right some parents work long hours to afford fees but some work long hours just to make ends meet? Some of us (fee and non fee paying alike) work our hours flexibly as DTI legislation now encourages. I for example will return to work with three days a week in the office work one day working at home and have a day off once a week. By arriving early at the office I'll be able to leave at 3.40 p.m. each day and still receive a full time salary. Dp with take dd to child minder on the three mornings I go to the office or wait for nanny to arrive if we ever get one. Its not perfect as I absolutely love being home with dd but its certainly than how it used to be. I hope my rants did not kill this thread - come back everyone, I won't say anymore promise

I am very glad that those awful boys were removed. The trouble with many awful children in the state (and sometimes fee paying) sector is that they don't get removed. I have heared far too many stories of teachers who have been asaulted by children who are then returned to the same school, and even more cases where a child has asaulted another and they are then placed bak in the same classroom. Last year my form contained a boy who broke another lad's jaw. He came back to the same class, dreadful stuff Sorry uhu, yet another whinging teacher story, but it is true

hmb - that sounds horrendous. I know my friend was a languages teacher in a secondary school (now on special measures) and they had a lad being chased by coppers through the school cos he had a knife on him last term. She also said, never mind running an interesting lesson, it was all she could do to get them to shut up and sit down!

She's given up now to be a SAHM as she just wasn't getting any time with her kids (3 and 2) because of all the xtra work she had to do outside her 3 days and because of all the abuse she got.

Gosh, ok - puts head on block again.

I went to Edinburgh university and went to work in the city as a lawyer and one of my biggest problem is that most privately educated adults are such trs. Mostly male, white and bording at the bigger schools admittedly. I actually want to like my kids.

Somehow these schools tend to breed a certain arrogance and confidence into their kids that helps them get into top universities, of course these schools have links with those universities as well. Though of course that has nothing to do with it . Then of course it helps them get the right sort of job in the city or civil service etc...

The whole system stinks - DON'T BUY IN TO IT

Retires...

Oh dear! I have never come across a more unpleasant pompous poster on here than Uhu.
I feel sorry for her co workers who feel they can chat to her about their kids and schools and all the while this smug woman is smirking behind their back at their idiocy for paying fees.
Shame on you Uhu.

I don't agree with uhu's wiewpoint, but she seems to be wanting a discussion to me, not trying to take a pop at her colleagues or mumsnetters who pay for private education.

Just to say, as I was brought up abroad I am not that familiar with the uk system here and still not sure what to do about dd and ds. That's why I'm interested in these discussions. However,was amazed at Louise's comment.Anyway am temporarily disappearing.

Tigermoth she said,

'I would also like to add that I think some of you teachers would whinge about the kids, no matter what kind of school you teach in. One of the boys godfathers is married to a primary school teacher who teaches in a good state school and everytime we see her, she just drones on and on about the workload,children, parents etc. '

Note that was some of you teachers, so me and not an abstact , some teacher somewhere.

So she is accusing me of 'whinging' when I state the facts about the kids that I teach. In essence she is infering that I am just whinging. So whe I state that I am dealing with violent, offensive teenagers I am just whinging. Sorry, but I find that deeply offensive. I think she is been very offensive.

Kaz33