When to plan for Oxbridge and what to consider?

[brainfog2022]

Hear me out, I'm not a Tiger Mum asking what can my reception-aged child do to get in. No, DC is in Y8, excelled at the 11+ and has always excelled at school and teachers always comment on how exceptionally bright he is. Although I suspect lots of people will say that" you don't need to do anything, school will pick up whether DC is Oxbridge material" and then take it from there. But I also know, from an acquaintance, that people DO plan ahead (but may not be open about it), whether it is to encourage their DC to enter writing/science competitions or do extra work.

A bit of context. DC2 is very, very bright (sorry that sounds totally braggy, but is a statement of fact - I have other, older children so I have some comparison0. He's the kind of kid other kids and parents refer to as 'he's just so clever, how does he even know that stuff'? I'm sure they think that he is forced to do masses of revision when, in fact, he hardly does any at all. DC is a very stubborn child who likes to do his own thing (would never ask us to read through anything or test him). He doesn't just have a remarkable memory but makes real connections and has an extreme thirst for knowledge. He likes to read science books for fun (wish he would read fiction but just can't make him...maybe I should try the audio route...). But he's also very sociable and does a fair bit of sports and gaming. Definitely not hours of 'extra' work on top of homework (which he manages himself - I have seen some other kids' work and it has so obviously been with a heavy input from their parents).

I realise that he will be competing with lots of bright kids who work ALL HOURS to get top results. Sometimes, and they are lovely, when I meet some of these children they don't all have the spark I would imagine is necessary at Oxbridge, but no doubt their parents will ensure they work hard for hours on end to get there.

The main reason I think DC would adore Oxbridge is the tutorial system. I know DC would LOVE being in a room with exceptional academics, debating some obscure issue. I'm not sure he gets enough opportunity of this at school (which is understandable, the teachers can't accommodate this), although he is known for asking very pertinent but out-of-the-box questions. Of course, the choice of uni will ultimately come down to him.

Also wanted to add that DC2 is completely different from DC1 and DC3. DC1/DC3 both work an average amount, have results above average, one slightly less at times, but they certainly do not have DC2's memory nor ability to make connections/links across numerous subjects/topics. DC2 knows more about most things than many adults. But he's also stubborn so not sure what would be helpful.

So, to cut a long story short, being in Y8 now, what are the key things for DC2 to consider over the next few years?

Re: A level choices
If you are unsure about whether the combination is right for a course your DC has in mind, you can actually telephone admissions tutors at the colleges and ask for advice.

I don’t know what other posters think, but it can be nice to study a subject that is rigorous but contrasts with the main ones ( though you would need to be able to do well in, and be interested, in that one too).

Hawkins001 · 17/07/2022 19:25
Daft question, but, what makes Oxbridge special ? How in this day and age do they have the prestige that they command ? When the knowledge and information is the same weather it's studied at Oxbridge vs e.g. Hull ?

Speaking generally, a huge amount of work is demanded of the student and covered in depth - far more. It is very intense and you learn to defend your arguments one to one with other students and your tutors. If you do an arts subject, you write essay after essay, reading and writing endlessly, so you gain skills in formulating arguments and using language at a high level. It is a bit like being trained for the SAS, but in thinking skills.

There are also many opportunities for joining clubs so as to pursue other interests. These could be just for fun, or take a sport to a very high level.

Other universities are very good too though, and may suit people more. Someone could get more out of another university, and do better, if that highly pressured Oxbridge environment does not suit them.

It could also be the case that a special individual subject is more suitably covered at another university, as posters pointed out earlier in the thread.

Re: A level choices
If you are unsure about whether the combination is right for a course your DC has in mind, you can actually telephone admissions tutors at the colleges and ask for advice.
Or email, and the student not the parent should do it unless they've some specific LD or MH issue. DD emailed a few admissions tutors at various unis when she was making her A level choices and got some lovely helpful responses.

Much appreciated for your analysis.

Much appreciated, it's nice to get an insight to the "real" Oxford university perspectives, because yes their are YouTube videos of what's it like to study at Oxford university, but then it's expected their is some bias, etc

To add bit like the show town called eureka, where all the scientists are basically PhD, qualified in their respective fields of various sciences, but the same instead with Oxford.

@theclangersarecoming

Such a great post ,do you have insider knowledge there!

Encourage a love of learning, healthy curiosity and support his passions… that’s the most likely route for him finding his best paths forward in life (including Oxbridge if that’s the way he ends up going, but there are many other options for bright people!)

This. Depending on what course he wants to do, another university might be better for him. Oxbridge is not the best option for all subjects.
Also agree with the pp who said that many very bright people get rejected every year. If you make Oxbridge the be all and end all now, and your ds gets rejected, then that could hit his confidence hugely. He may or may not be the right fit for them, but also they may or may not be the right fit for him. Let him enjoy learning and find his favourite subjects, and he will find a university suited to him with the course he wants to do.

I will say, having been to Oxbridge, I know a few very “successful” people who went there (as well as as a few who did not)…. But most people go on to have similar jobs and lives to people who have degrees from other places - perfectly lovely lives and jobs, but not dependent on having gone to Oxbridge. It is a great experience (although not one without its downsides) but not the be all and end all.

I accept I might be wrong about the 2 essays a term but DD's friends doing her subject at Bristol, Durham, Exeter and Birmingham all report that they do 1 or 2 essays a term.

It’s not a matter of being ‘wrong’. I certainly know current students at RG universities who are only required to produce one or two essays per term (and this is in non-STEM subjects).

There’s just a lot of variation between universities - as well as between subjects within any university.

I certainly hope it's the case too...
My dc2 has decided against applying to Cambridge - different subject from DD but fairly similar in terms of style of course and workload - purely because of the workload.
Dc2 is far from lazy - but wants a better balance.
I would be a bit disappointed if the workload is the same elsewhere!

Some wonderfully helpful responses on here, thank you.

Just to make clear, we're not 'prepping' DC for Oxbridge but it is equally interesting to learn that many successful applicants have taken part in challenges e.g. essays, maths, physics etc. Not all bright kids (unless made to do so by their parents) would necessarily do this but if these challenges are suggested once they're in Sixth Form, I think most kids (especially boys) will be more prone to see the benefit and be driven.

The thing that struck me as potentially most interesting about Oxbridge is the tutorial system whereby you argue your point and work in small groups, even 1-2-1. I think DS would love this, and it is something he is naturally inclined to do. When he is interested in something he reads around the subject himself but also draws very interesting (out of the box) links with other topics; he's like a sponge and a real thinker in this sense. Again something he has always done himself, not driven by us.

DC has always been top of the class/year with not much effort at all, and therein lies a huge issue. DC has a phenomenal memory, very high IQ and capacity to learn/VR/NVR etc which means he doesn't (yet) have to put in the effort most other kids do (though the most awful handwriting - like a mad professor's!. Almost everyone I meet (whether his peers, their parents, teachers) often say how unusually bright he is. It is not a mum boast (and I have other children so know the difference; and this is the 'spark' I'm talking about - an incredibly inquisitive mind, able to think out of the box, argue and debate with adults from an extremely young age - all self driven by DC btw and we don't get involved with homework, apart from when DC did the 11+). This in itself might be a hard burden to bear for DC, as it can't be nice to always have the pressure of being the 'bright' one.

But it is the lack of effort DC needs to put in to get good grades that is our biggest worry. We're trying to work really hard with DC to encourage 'doing your best' and that effort and hard work are really important. As many of you have commented, everyone at Oxbridge works really hard.

summerandsun · Today 17:43
DC has always been top of the class/year with not much effort at all, and therein lies a huge issue. DC has a phenomenal memory, very high IQ and capacity to learn/VR/NVR etc which means he doesn't (yet) have to put in the effort most other kids do (though the most awful handwriting - like a mad professor's!. Almost everyone I meet (whether his peers, their parents, teachers) often say how unusually bright he is.

One thing to watch out for, after all the effortless success, and where stressing the need for him to do his best counts, is if when he gets there he gets a shock from how clever he thinks the others might be, and the high expectations placed on him, and gets frightened of failing. That can lead to never quite getting in a ‘flow’ of just doing his best and enjoying it. A lot of people there will have been top of their class at school. I think imposter syndrome is not uncommon in the new setting.

OP you may want to check out the US universities that are need-blind, that is, they have such big endowments and are so wealthy that they will take the best students and make it affordable for them. MIT, California Institute of Technology, Carnegie Mellon and similar are all known for science and technology. You would need to look at their admission criteria but they usually take plenty of international students and they like to see students who don't usually apply (not many apply from the UK compared to many Asian nations for example).

The ones I mentioned are not necessarily need blind but I was trying to convey the caliber of what your DS could aim for. He will need to be very self-motivated and independent to want the adventure of studying abroad and the ability to discipline himself to study and be organized.
blog.prepscholar.com/need-blind-colleges-list

Re the US
Ravenclawdropout · Today 18:13
Without knowing the details, i think I have heard you need to start preparing and applying a long time in advance - maybe two years?

I think if you are aiming for any top university you will be thinking two years ahead. Admissions in the USA opens in the late summer before your final year of high school for some programs and runs for a good 6 months + but its always better to apply early.
OP preparation is always smart, people who tell you how their kid applied last minute and got in are the exception rather than the rule. Parents all over the world wouldn't pay through the nose for private school if people could all rock up at the last minute. Like everything, those that are prepared are more likely to hit the target. I am not talking "Tiger Mom" here, more common sense. I currently have two dds in USA college. I am British living in the US and I was an International College Counselor while living in Germany, a few years ago now, I left Europe again in 2015.

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Ravenclawdropout · Today 18:32
I think if you are aiming for any top university you will be thinking two years ahead

But the U.K. the actual application for Oxbridge is the autumn before A levels ( just under a year ahead before you would go, and other universities even later), whereas in the U.S. you might be having to start the whole process well before that I think.

@Ravenclawdropout yes ScrollingLeaves is correct - there is only one deadline for Oxbridge applications and it’s the October before entry. No-one sees any of the applications before the deadline, so it does not make any difference if you apply earlier or right on the deadline.

It is possible to apply the year before for deferred entry, but candidates normally only ever do this if they are planning on a gap year after school. They would be at a huge academic disadvantage applying a year before everyone else.

Plus it’s very rare these days to be offered a deferred entry place anyway. (Mainly because an applicant would have to be SO impressive that interviewers would have to be confident that they were better than anyone who might apply the following year!)

No you apply at the same time, the Sumner/Fall of your Senior year of High School. Just like Oxbridge the prestigious Universities/Colleges in the USA can have early deadlines or top students want to know early if they got their first choices so they can strategize if they didn't. There can be different deadlines and "Rolling Admissions" where they keep accepting candidates all the way through the admissions process; while some bank the top students who apply early (similar to RGs/Bristol/Durham etc. snatching up OxBridge rejects.

I would argue in both nations if you leave the whole thing (research/essays etc) right until the admission period you can be behind the 8-Ball. So two years is reasonable.
Getting into the best unis and courses also involves planning and strategy a lot of the time.
Like if students I was helping apply were told they were waitlisted, I would have advice/strategy for them to be more likely to be taken off the Waitlist and offered a place, and this could depend on the college.

In the UK the deadline for OxBridge is Oct but not for the other universities which is later. So top students who don't get a place are then available to other universities.

In the USA the system is different. The final deadline is not usually until January or later and there is no maximum amount of colleges you can apply to. Many are on the Common App which is a universal application (which also includes some savvy UK universities); but even then you have to check as some unis want some extra information on top of the Common Aop. Then other Universities use just their own application, or other consortium applications (such as the University of California). The USA is obviously much larger than the UK with many more elements to be aware of (climate, size, geography, demographics, reputation etc etc). So it pays off to take time on research. There are many excellent universities in the USA that most people in the UK haven't heard of. Likewise Americans have usually never heard of anything other than Oxford, Cambridge and St. Andrew's who have been doing outstanding PR/Recruitment in the USA for at least 20 yrs. Other UK universities have been playing catchup in the past 10 years!

No you misunderstand the system in the U.K. — there are two UCAS deadlines. If you want to apply to either Oxford or Cambridge (you can’t apply to both), you must submit all of your UCAS application to all universities by the early deadline.

Some U.K. universities do rolling admissions and some don’t. But you only do one UCAS application to all of your choices.

There isn’t much call for U.K. universities to do recruitment in the US because the cost of the overseas fees they charge makes it prohibitive for most school students in North America to apply, plus the mismatch in the academic system means US school students are often not attracted to the more specialised U.K. courses.