When to plan for Oxbridge and what to consider?

[brainfog2022]

Hear me out, I'm not a Tiger Mum asking what can my reception-aged child do to get in. No, DC is in Y8, excelled at the 11+ and has always excelled at school and teachers always comment on how exceptionally bright he is. Although I suspect lots of people will say that" you don't need to do anything, school will pick up whether DC is Oxbridge material" and then take it from there. But I also know, from an acquaintance, that people DO plan ahead (but may not be open about it), whether it is to encourage their DC to enter writing/science competitions or do extra work.

A bit of context. DC2 is very, very bright (sorry that sounds totally braggy, but is a statement of fact - I have other, older children so I have some comparison0. He's the kind of kid other kids and parents refer to as 'he's just so clever, how does he even know that stuff'? I'm sure they think that he is forced to do masses of revision when, in fact, he hardly does any at all. DC is a very stubborn child who likes to do his own thing (would never ask us to read through anything or test him). He doesn't just have a remarkable memory but makes real connections and has an extreme thirst for knowledge. He likes to read science books for fun (wish he would read fiction but just can't make him...maybe I should try the audio route...). But he's also very sociable and does a fair bit of sports and gaming. Definitely not hours of 'extra' work on top of homework (which he manages himself - I have seen some other kids' work and it has so obviously been with a heavy input from their parents).

I realise that he will be competing with lots of bright kids who work ALL HOURS to get top results. Sometimes, and they are lovely, when I meet some of these children they don't all have the spark I would imagine is necessary at Oxbridge, but no doubt their parents will ensure they work hard for hours on end to get there.

The main reason I think DC would adore Oxbridge is the tutorial system. I know DC would LOVE being in a room with exceptional academics, debating some obscure issue. I'm not sure he gets enough opportunity of this at school (which is understandable, the teachers can't accommodate this), although he is known for asking very pertinent but out-of-the-box questions. Of course, the choice of uni will ultimately come down to him.

Also wanted to add that DC2 is completely different from DC1 and DC3. DC1/DC3 both work an average amount, have results above average, one slightly less at times, but they certainly do not have DC2's memory nor ability to make connections/links across numerous subjects/topics. DC2 knows more about most things than many adults. But he's also stubborn so not sure what would be helpful.

So, to cut a long story short, being in Y8 now, what are the key things for DC2 to consider over the next few years?

I'd leave the planning until said child states that they want to go to university, and specifically Oxbridge... Or at least give him more

"Excelled at the 11+" - here the pass mark is 98/100, so not much room between passed and "excelled".

I also have a very bright son and my husband went to Oxford so I am hoping he would give it consideration when the time comes.

There are some organisations that offer summer schools from age 12 which focus on various subjects such as medicine and economics. My plan is to give those a look. Check out Oxford scholastica, I came across that last week and am considering enrolling him for a week.

*time to figure out his GCSE options first.

I used to work in admissions for Cambridge. My brother is also very similar to your DS and my mum worked of getting him into Cambridge for years.

First thing is to continue his love of learning and moving beyond the topics at school. At interview they'll be looking for a love of the subject and that he's read around / studied beyond the school gates.

If he has a particular interest consider looking into magazines / places to visit / extra books / summer schools etc.

Nothing too heavy yet, just those skills that he can hone and focus later on.

If he will be first generation into uni look into the Sutton trust. Attendance at their summer schools and events DOES NOT HELP GET THEN INTO OXBRIDGE, but it can help with confidence around them being able to go.

Things like the maths challenge and any gifted and talented programmes also help.

Don't he sucked in to paying for things like oxbridge applications. You can get the same advice for free from the admissions offices themselves.

Visit the cities, see what he thinks of them. Check out the courses and make sure they do something he wants to do. They don't do everything so worth thinking of a good alternative.

DS2 decided to change direction after his A levels, so took a gap year and did one more A level as an external candidate. He decided to apply to Oxford but then realised he only had a week to get everything in for his application...
He obviously did this with no school support and was offered a place. Assuming he gets the grade he needs in his extra A level (he is expected to) he'll start in October.
So you don't necessarily need to plan this out years in advance.

The best thing you can do is absolutely NOT make oxbridge the be all and end all. Lots of extremely bright kids don’t get in for a variety of different reasons. If he does, great. If he doesn’t he will be fine. You making a massive deal about it from the age of 12 will not help at all.

Don’t.

Don’t ‘plan for Oxbridge’ because nothing you or he does can guarantee a place at either university - and then where would you be? Buried under a decade of regret and disappointment.

So … Plan for him to be in a position to get into the best of the universities he would like for his chosen subject. You’re probably doing most of that already - wide reading, lots of exposure to the world in order to contextualise knowledge, extra-curricular activities to build resilience, team working skills and pride in achievement. No doubt he could achieve a dozen A* GCSEs and many A’ Levels without any of that - but children have to live and thrive for exam results to really have any meaning. It’s no good getting in to whichever university and then collapsing from exhaustion or culture shock.

(I say these things as a long ago Oxbridge graduate who currently sees a lot of Oxbridge and RG students up close.)

The first thing is for you, not DS, to find out about the

My DD didn't even have Cambridge on her radar till after she'd finished her first year of A levels.

Sounds like your DS will be at a natural advantage about kids who have to work all hours to get top results. If he's got a thirst for knowledge and reads science books etc he's already doing the right things. Let him follow his interests, as and when possible participating in various things (maybe something like Smallpeice courses) , if he's potentially interested in engineering he might want to do a relevant DT subject so he can get some practical skills, do a project, maybe go for an Arkwright award. Maybe do coding of some sort, participate and maybe in the sixth form help run clubs he's interested in. My dd did those sorts of things but as an end in themselves, not a means to an end.

Do not plan in this way as it is terrible for the child when they do not get in. 4 of ds friends over the last few years have failed to get a place, all had A* at GCSEs and A levels, all had strong extracurricular activities and 1 had grade 8 in 2 instruments. Ds had similar grades and has gone to a non Russel group uni in a city he loves for a course that ranks high over all. Encourage and support but be careful not to frame so that it is oxbridge or failure.

Just be aware that Oxbridge don't necessarily offer the 'best' courses in all subjects.

Also let your DS make his own decisions. Let him choose his GCSEs and A levels in subjects that he wants to do and that interest him. There are loads of top unis out there, and a variety of different factors to be taken into account when choosing them.

@brainfog2022 sorry, a fumble.

First off figure out if there is something specific he wants to do, for instance if sports science is his thing Loughborough could be first choice, or Plymouth for marine biology. There are many academic institutions who have specialised world leading faculties and reputations that aren't really recognised unless you work in that sector

If he doesn't have a niche career in mind he needs to look at which degree he wants to do, no matter how bright he is enthusiasm counts for a lot so make sure it's something he interested in. Also bear in mind that Oxford do combined degrees e.g linguistics and philosophy or PPE, Cambridge do single degrees e.g linguistics or philosophy.

Next find out about the admissions process it's different to standard UCAS and both Oxford and Cambridge are different to each other. If the collegiate system is important also maybe consider Durham. Also bear in mind that you can only apply to either Oxford or Cambridge but not both.

Good luck!

Also bear in mind that Oxford do combined degrees e.g linguistics and philosophy or PPE, Cambridge do single degrees e.g linguistics or philosophy.

But for sciences (which may turn out to be the lad's interest), it's Oxford which offers single sciences while Cambridge has NatSci. And both do general engineering not single fields, so for many the likes of imperial, Manchester or Southampton will be more apt.

Anyway... that sort of detail is way in the future for the OP!

@ErrolTheDragon thank you for the update I was only aware of my DS's options re Oxbridge.

@brainfog2022 as others have pointed out don't disregard other uni's, I'd be more impressed by an engineering degree from Warwick than from Oxbridge.

Ask his school about national competitions for his subject interests. This helps to be realistic about his abilities. However I don't think you should plan Oxbridge, just take every year as it comes.

I assume he is at a school where there is some Oxbridge application experience?
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My DD didn't even have Cambridge on her radar till after she'd finished her first year of A levels.

Mine didn't have Oxbridge on her radar till after her A-level results! She was quite shellshocked by an offer, having applied last-minute and in a spirit of 'What else can I do to keep busy in a pandemic?'

Usually the shock is the other way round. Most applicants don't get in, and that can come as quite a jolt to a bright child.

DS1 went to Oxford. Set his heart on it quite early on in life. We didn't exactly 'plan' for it. But we helped it happen by buying him loads of books around the subjects he was interested in, showing him documentaries, letting him know when talks were on the radio or being given nearby. We never forced him to do anything - it was all directed by him. We bought the books - up to him if he read them etc. We decamped the family for a week when he got brilliant work experience hundreds of miles from home, aged only 15. But it was him who applied for the experience.

I did endure hours and hours and hours of chat about subjects I have zero interest in, but I feigned interest and asked lots of questions about the finer details.

Ime, the people who get into Oxford are the ones with a genuine passion for their subject, beyond the curriculum, beyond the kudos of Oxford. They want to go there, as you say, for the tutorial experience of one to one deep discussions on arcane topics with the best brains in the field. That was definitely true of DS.

I have a DS in his second year at Oxford studying a STEM subject. He started prep at the beginning of Y12, the point at which he decided he really wanted to give it a good go. His preparation consisted of doing more of what he was already doing, reading around his subject, watching on line lectures and doing obscure on line courses. He was doing national competitions (Olympiad stuff) and worked hard to understand the requirements of the admissions test and practice past papers. His school had very little experience of Oxbridge admissions and he got no additional help other than us reading his Personal Statement. Contrary to all the adverts for Oxbridge prep, it does seem all the want is absolute passion and dedication to their subject and demonstrable academic excellence outside the curriculum.
A word of caution though - DS does enjoy the tutorial system but there is not much sitting around debating obscure topics! It seems to be mostly pulling apart of essays or problem sheets, sometimes very publicly! A DC needs to be pretty academically secure to manage this and the workload, which can be intense. DS does enjoy being surrounded by really clever people and enjoys the work but doesn't sadly like much else about Oxford in general which disappoints him after wanting it all so much and is kind of sad
Of course you know your DC best but I would echo the Oxbridge not being the 'be all' - everyone that applies is brilliant and lot of brilliant DC don't get in, simply because admissions tutors have only a certain amount of places. And they might find a better fit elsewhere or a degree that has better modules, or find that Oxbridge simply don't do the degree they wat.

Please don't start planning. It should be your son's choice as to if and where he goes. Of course you can encourage him, but to be successful at Oxbridge you have to be a self motivated and independent learner. Having a parent somehow prepare him from Y8 goes against that ethos.

I'd also wait until he knows what subject he wants to study. Cambridge doesn't offer dentistry, for example.

Those children who have their life planned out for them from an early age rarely do as well as they could if they are allowed to make decisions for themselves. Speaking as a Cambridge graduate with two children - both extremely bright - one wants to be a fighter pilot and the other a teacher. They will be fully supported in reaching THEIR dreams.

Much too young. Keep the pressure off so they just keep loving learning.

@brainfog2022 I'd second the comments from @Fireflygal and @goldfinchonthelawn look at the Olympiads and passion passion passion.

Another thing I didn't know until DS went to UoO was how short the terms are; 8 weeks compared to the standard 12, it's really very intense

I don't think Oxbridge is the gold standard in all areas, but I think it offers a unique learning experience.

Have a look at the What Uni? site to see where offers the best courses for his interests.

@brainfog2022

"Although I suspect lots of people will say that" you don't need to do anything, school will pick up whether DC is Oxbridge material" and then take it from there"

Never leave the future of your children's education up to others,
Take charge and be in control as best as possible, if that means being a tiger mum, then it's a necessary requirement.

Basically begin training them as soon as possible, their are many YouTube videos on what's expected in Oxford candidates, basically have different plans for different courses your dc may want to pursue, then formulate detailed profiles of how to give your dc, the best chances of succeeding.

That's bad advice if you want to get ahead, especially when you compare the hours spent on education in the uk, vs other countries etc.

I think the point to start prep is a level choices - to make sure you take the right A level combos for the subject you're thinking of reading.

Before that just encourage learning!

And allow DC to discover the experience of applying to oxford or cambridge for himself.

If you start on about it now he will be so over it by the time he is 16!