When to plan for Oxbridge and what to consider?

[brainfog2022]

Hear me out, I'm not a Tiger Mum asking what can my reception-aged child do to get in. No, DC is in Y8, excelled at the 11+ and has always excelled at school and teachers always comment on how exceptionally bright he is. Although I suspect lots of people will say that" you don't need to do anything, school will pick up whether DC is Oxbridge material" and then take it from there. But I also know, from an acquaintance, that people DO plan ahead (but may not be open about it), whether it is to encourage their DC to enter writing/science competitions or do extra work.

A bit of context. DC2 is very, very bright (sorry that sounds totally braggy, but is a statement of fact - I have other, older children so I have some comparison0. He's the kind of kid other kids and parents refer to as 'he's just so clever, how does he even know that stuff'? I'm sure they think that he is forced to do masses of revision when, in fact, he hardly does any at all. DC is a very stubborn child who likes to do his own thing (would never ask us to read through anything or test him). He doesn't just have a remarkable memory but makes real connections and has an extreme thirst for knowledge. He likes to read science books for fun (wish he would read fiction but just can't make him...maybe I should try the audio route...). But he's also very sociable and does a fair bit of sports and gaming. Definitely not hours of 'extra' work on top of homework (which he manages himself - I have seen some other kids' work and it has so obviously been with a heavy input from their parents).

I realise that he will be competing with lots of bright kids who work ALL HOURS to get top results. Sometimes, and they are lovely, when I meet some of these children they don't all have the spark I would imagine is necessary at Oxbridge, but no doubt their parents will ensure they work hard for hours on end to get there.

The main reason I think DC would adore Oxbridge is the tutorial system. I know DC would LOVE being in a room with exceptional academics, debating some obscure issue. I'm not sure he gets enough opportunity of this at school (which is understandable, the teachers can't accommodate this), although he is known for asking very pertinent but out-of-the-box questions. Of course, the choice of uni will ultimately come down to him.

Also wanted to add that DC2 is completely different from DC1 and DC3. DC1/DC3 both work an average amount, have results above average, one slightly less at times, but they certainly do not have DC2's memory nor ability to make connections/links across numerous subjects/topics. DC2 knows more about most things than many adults. But he's also stubborn so not sure what would be helpful.

So, to cut a long story short, being in Y8 now, what are the key things for DC2 to consider over the next few years?

DS started thinking about Oxbridge application in the first term of Y12. He took himself to a subject taster day at Cambridge, where he found out about Isaac Physics * and joined their Y12 mentoring scheme.

In the February half term of Y12 he went to an open day at a Cambridge college, liked it, and decided to apply there.

He asked at school about the Physics Olympiad but his school doesn't do it, so he entered himself independently for the Senior Physics Challenge and was invited to the residential summer school at Cambridge. During this he had the opportunity to look around a couple of other colleges, which confirmed his original choice.

• Isaac Physics is available free of charge to any pupil.

Just to add: until Y11 DS was completely fixed on the idea of going to Imperial. In the end Imperial didn't even make the shortlist for the UCAS application.

things like this are v good for kids who want to do more than school
parallel.org.uk/circles

is your child at a school that knows how to do Oxbridge applications and regularly puts children in for it? Or a school that hasn't much idea. If the latter, you need to be more proactive.

Thanks, this is all very helpful. Just to clarify, I'm not going to start talking to my son about Oxbridge at this stage; he will need to want it for himself and we would also explore other universities. But I did want to be armed with the knowledge that clearly many of you have here, so that's really great to have this awareness. I know so many unis are great but it is the collegiate system that I felt would be suitable for him.

As mentioned, though maybe I didn't make myself clear, DC's choice of uni will be down to him entirely. He has already been in a situation where he was accepted to some of the very top UK schools (state/private) but we let him make the choice and he decided to go to a local school.

He is already doing sports, music, coding (a bit). He likes science and politics/current affairs (from an early age he picked up the newspaper and still wants to read it every morning - not driven by us apart from the fact that we have a printed paper delivered). Weirdly, although he doesn't like fiction as such he always does exceptionally well in English exams too. No idea how really!

Interesting to hear about the Durham collegiate system, didn't know that. My DC is very involved in the classroom and can hold his own in discussions with most adults but interesting to know that the terms are so intense. Worth bearing in mind.

I have met people who went to Oxbridge (now adults) who are very bright but not exceptionally so, but they were very applied and worked very hard. DC is definitely passionate about (some) subjects and himself seeks out knowledge beyond what is set at school and not something we have pushed on him but when he has wanted science books for Xmas etc we have indulged him.

School usually have a few kids get into Oxbridge but not many compared with some of the other senior schools DC could have gone to, had he chosen to!

Thanks again.

What is it about the collegiate system that you think would be good for your DS?

I’m an Oxford graduate with kids currently thinking about Oxbridge. At this stage just do the things you would anyway- encourage him to think and learn beyond the curriculum in any subject that interests him. This will be beneficial wherever he ends up applying. Could be through school (clubs, challenges etc) activities with you or his own reading and research.

Whatever you do, don’t make it the be all and end all. Every year, some exceptionally clever applicants don’t get in and they go on to be just fine.

Cambridge graduate, teacher of 30 years experience and parent of three here. I don’t think preparation is helpful at this stage - just let him do the things he enjoys for now. Once he’s in 6th form then you can start thinking about it. There are so many variables- not least subject choices. Much easier to get in for MFL or Classics than History or Maths for example. Provide books, trips, opportunities, conversation- let him grow up.

"A choice of seventeen Colleges
Each college offers the full range of facilities you’d expect to find at a university and more. That means 17 times as many opportunities to develop your team-working, leadership, problem-solving skills, and initiative. And 17 more chances to get involved in sports, societies, music, arts, associations, and committees.

No two colleges are the same – their architecture and settings are as distinct as their histories and traditions. One thing every college has in common, however, is its commitment to offering support, challenge, participation, teamwork, and leadership opportunities.

Your college will also have its own Student Support Office, acting as a point of contact for any welfare and pastoral support you might need during your time here. All that’s left is to decide which college you prefer."

www.durham.ac.uk/study/international/studying-in-the-uk/why-durham/unique-college-system/

Seems like it's basically just copying Oxford and their college's.

I've had one DC at Oxford, one at Durham. So hope I can be offer some insights that might be of use.

Four things:

1. Contextualisation of admissions has been a game-changer. Context is everything. The more academically selective and high-achieving the school, the higher the standard your DC will be held to at every stage, be it GCSE, A level, admissions test score, interview score. This does not divide along a simple state/independent binary. Your home postcode is also really important. As is fee status.
2. A successful Oxbridge application is a huge commitment, and works best if your DC would be doing extra reading, podcasts, super-curricular stuff anyway just because that's who they are. Needs to start in earnest by summer vac of lower sixth at the latest. Google 'Staircase 12' for ideas, but just read what interests them.
3. If your DC are from an indie school they will not take them if they miss their offer even by one mark, so be under no illusions that you are exposing your DC to a pretty pitiless process. So;
4. Lower the temperature at every stage - Oxbridge is not the promised land. DC at Durham received a superb education, DC at Oxford was often less well-served. My DC's impression was that joint honours courses at Oxford can often be somewhat chaotic.

@fishingeagle
"joint honours courses at Oxford can often be somewhat chaotic."

More context and information please

Joint honours courses anywhere can bring their own challenges if the two independent timetables don't mesh. They can also mean restricted modules for both: for instance, if you are taking Italian with History, you may need to do all the core language and literature modules for Italian, plus all the core modules for History, leaving you no space to do Obscure Niche Module that you actually fancied.

@Hawkins001 anecdotally any joint course with a MFL seems to be really tough. I say 'chaotic' as DC's friends doing History and MFL had an ongoing nightmare trying to sort out tutes and language classes in a way that didn't leave them with some weeks that were simply unmanageable even for Oxford. I'm not convinced joint degrees at Oxford really work because their degrees are not modular. I wouldn't recommend them unless DC are exceptionally academically able because they seem to feel more like two degrees at once. I would be wary about making an Oxford application for a joint MFL degree unless one parent a native speaker or DC able to have a gap year consolidating language skills.

continue love of learning, debating clubs, needs ability to hold his own during conversation with academics.
read read read.
get a prospectus early which will give a feel for the wide range of subjects early on.
if he has an idea of which subject he wishes to read, do everything you can to nurture that with museum trips, cultural trips abroad, books. anything that exposes him to the subject beyond what is learnt at school.
good luck!

That's understandable, much appreciated for your analysis

@Hawkins001 No problem. It seems to be less of an issue with courses that are designed to offer multiple subjects right from the get-go with components that aren't offered as single honours, such as PPE or Econ and Management. But good luck with getting an offer for either of those two!

DD is at Cambridge.
Ever since she was old enough to understand about university etc (secondary school age I guess) she liked the idea of Cambridge but mainly because it's pretty.
She decided to apply during year 12. She did do an essay competition (did not do well). She went to a couple of evening lectures at another university on subjects that interested her and used one of them as the jumping off point on her personal statement.
She read a lot of books (but that wasn't specifically for uni application) on her subject.
She did really well at school; school definitely encouraged her to apply to Cambridge.
She thinks her interview went very badly (She was pooled to a different college) and that the main reason she was picked by the other college (over the other candidates in the pool) was her GCSE grades from a state school. (I have no way of knowing if that's true).
She loves it. She loves the tutorial system. She lives the formals and the prettiness of the buildings etc. She works very very hard. Her younger sibling is not going to apply (despite same grades, same ability, same work ethic etc) because they don't want to have to work as hard to stay on top of their workload during uni.
If your ds still wants to apply by the time he's year 12 then encourage him. Till then I'd leave well alone...

This is really good advice.

I have a DS going to Cambridge this year and he's just very normal really. It wasn't even on his radar to apply until Year 12.

OP, these days it's not as case of "Oxbridge or nothing." There are other great unis such as LSE for social sciences, or Imperial fir STEM. You don't even say what subject you are planning for him?! You can't possibly know this in Year 8. It may be he wants to do a subject that is not even on offer at Oxbridge!

You ask about essay competitions etc and yes, my son did some of those (and won one) - but in Year 12! You are not going to be mentioning things from Year 8 on the Personal Statement. It needs to be beyond A-level standard time to be relevant.

He may prefer an Ivy League where the first year is broader and then they 'major.' This suits lots of students. Don't put all you eggs in one basket.

If you must do something now, think about where his strengths are. Is it already obvious what he wants to study? If so, he would be reading about that subject anyway and you can help by discussing his interest with him. But I'd he doesn't have an obvious subject at this stage- that's fine too. Most won't, So just support him to get top GCSEs and go from there. Maybe he can some essay competitions or other 'super curriculars then. But it has to come from him.

Really just want to endorse @riversparkle's comments. The temptation to make it the be-all-and-end-all when the most overwhelmingly likely result of any Oxbridge application is a rejection is not in anyone's best interests. Journey hopefully, but not obsessively so! There are many other truly fantastic options.

I only have my experience of my own DC but their interests didn't really become apparent to themselves until year 12. Mine all matured massively intellectually in that year, and became more interested in humanities and social sciences I think as their understanding of the world around them deepened.

You also can't always tell at this stage. Some DC will peak at GCSE and the step up to A level will subsequently prove to be a challenge, especially if they pick subjects that they are not really interested in. Likewise there will be those whose GCSE results will be slightly less than stellar but whose post-16 academic trajectory is really impressive as they mature a bit. So maybe just wait and see.

In my experience, if you give them the freedom to 'fail' safely, knowing that your love and support are unconditional, that the pride you feel is in their effort rather than predicated on any outcome and that they could never disappoint you, they are actually far more likely to succeed. Pressure off not on.

You don't even say what subject you are planning for him?!

I should hope not! In due course, discussion of pros and cons of different options may be relevant but I'd think the idea of a parent planning what subject their DC should take would be recognised even by the most tigerish of parents (which the OP isn't) as being an awful idea.

I was at Cambridge and ds2 took chemistry at Oxford.
My other dc gave gone to Durham and Bath and had a much better sociable well rounded uni experience. DS found Oxford to be a very toxic environment.Lots of pretentious insecure people trying to prove how smart and sophisticated they were all the time, feeling guilty every second you weren't working, some pretty nasty tutors....

That's such a shame @fUNNYfACE36 - that's not DS's experience of it at all. He has a lively social life, has made friends, participates in sport, choir, a couple of societies, appears to party quite a lot and still works like a dog. He is comatose with tiredness when he comes home, but he's never said tutors are nasty or that fellow students are pretentious. (Insecure - yes - there does seem to be a lot of anxiety but I wonder if that's as much a product of starting in lockdown as anything else.)

@fUNNYfACE36 Chemistry at Oxford is a very very tough degree - hugely impressive achievement and I'm really sorry he didn't enjoy Oxford more. DS often felt guilty too so I sympathise there. He had one tutor who made a student in his group cry but fortunately the majority were very supportive.

Daft question, but, what makes Oxbridge special ? How in this day and age do they have the prestige that they command ? When the knowledge and information is the same weather it's studied at Oxbridge vs e.g. Hull ?

The adjective DD most often applied to people she met at Cambridge- in college, on her course, academics - was "lovely".