Steiner/Waldorf Schools - requesting info from those in the know...

[Rantmum]

...anyone know anything about the Steiner/Waldorf school system, pros and cons (particularly with reference to early years/primary education, but any info is good!. Had not really given them too much consideration but have recently moved and met several mothers who speak highly of the their approach.

Good grief- you wouldn't - of course - call that a brainwashing technique would you? Particularly when children are so suceptable to the adult's lead. No - it's all part of the natural, child lead freedom of Steiner education. Naturally.

I see we now agree northern!

(Previous message was about the painting sun stuff)

Hi thenew-nice to have you back again- thought you'd dropped us- tho' I really have to agree that yes- Steiner is incredibly boring- if you wade and plough through all that nonsense- which of course if you choose this education for your kids- you have to really , don't you- to be well informed- 'cos the schools sure as hell aren't going to inform you.
"if that's what you want to think then that's fine by me, if it makes you feel better! (but you are wrong)"- sure sign of cult follower- you're right- everyone else is wrong- no room for manouver there then.
And it's what I've learned- not what I think- that's the difference here. I've learnt- by reading about Steiner and anthroposophy- that it has some of the signs of a cult- as I outlined. And those things happened to us- and to a good many others too.
Doesn't necessarily make me feel better either- what's that got to do with it? If I have any agenda atall- it's about the lack of openness of Steiner schools- which I think has been fairly comprehensively proved that they aren't- unless you can prove otherwise? If people like you are happy with it all- who is anyone to tell you otherwise?
I think it's wonderful to be able to discuss all these anthroposophical spiritual science ideas in the open- it would be great if a teacher at a school could come on , and put their side too.
I'm glad you're getting the good things from Steiner school- which also I've said loads of times before - there undoubtedly are.

Oh yes- and their job- in Steiner schools- the teachers sacred task - is to help the children re incarnate.They consider themselves as more important than the parents.
Wikepedia- Waldorf education-
"Waldorf education grows out of anthroposophy's view of child development, which stands as the basis for the educational theory, methodology of teaching and curriculum. Waldorf pedagogics see that the teacher has "a sacred task in helping each child's soul and spirit grow)"
Sorry- I thought you knew this.
I'm getting deja vu...

hey northern calm down, you are getting yourself in to a bit of a pickle.

"if that's what you want to think then that's fine by me, if it makes you feel better! (but you are wrong)"- sure sign of cult follower- you're right- everyone else is wrong- no room for manouver there then.

I was talking about your view about me having been brainwashed... not I am right in my opinion and everyone else is wrong.

but if you slow down and breathe a little, you might have read my post properly.

go and brew yourself a camomile.

Steiner Schools in England- government research paper-
"a sacred task in helping each child?s soul and spirit incarnate in the world "

It was tongue in cheek the new- I always thought there weren't many jokes/laughs on Steiner Planet....

The communities do have the culty feel- certainly the ones I know- many people agree.

"a choice that parents knowingly make when sending to steiner- you have to prove it to the school before you are allowed in!"

What do you have to prove? I'm really interested in this- because it couldn't be further from the truth with he school we wereee involved with. Did the interview process oe whatever- involve things about proving commitment? I've not heard of that- because I know a couple of people who were indignant about the ammount of fundraising, cleaning gardening etc that you had to do- because they said they weren't even told that.

I have a nice cup of red zinger here, my drink of choice this month. Thanks for your concern tho

red zinger huh? I'll have to try that one should I need a good row with dh

well at our local school there is a feling of 'will be be accepted' as you have to show yourselves to be actively involved in the school, the school does an awful lot to demonstrate the level of involvement that they expect from families in their childrens schooling. the school also talk very early on about finances, we have been made clear that family involvement in the school comes as a higher priority than paying full fees for example.
this couldn't have been made any clearer to us which is why believe our schools ae so very different, and hence our experiences.

but we are obviously different people and our perspectives will be different.

(sometimes I have an camomile expresso...2 teabags)

out of interest though, and I know that ofsted is a bit of a joke in itself, but if everything you say is correct, then I wonder how some stiener schools manage to achieve 'outstanding' ofsted reports?

" very few steiner prents need an online community as they have such a wonderful real-life one "

Like yourself?

mmm interesting food for thought here. i am concidering moving to the stroud area to house parent adults with learning difficulties. i do have concerns about integration and am concidering sending my 13yr dd and 4yr ds to steiner schools. there are a couple there. dh fears hell never be able to have steak again let alone watch jamies kitchen. dd currently goes privately and would like to give her an alternative but when i tell her no internet or mobiles shell fall over whilst ds i feel would take to it very well. any advice

"you're taking me away from my true family"

Scary.

Honestly- red zinger is quite soothing- it's my nature that gives the zing

Oh- I see- - the- will be accepted- translates as -
you couldn't possibly hold down a job/ have a life outside the school- (or in the case of our- and other schools- mix with outsiders)-
because your kids go half day building up to full days when they're 11

• you have to bake cakes and make "crafts"- felt gnomes or teasel hedgehogs being the most acceptable-for continual fundraising drives,

work in the school cafe, clean the class rooms, garden, decorate- insert leaflets into envlopes, etc etc- devote yourself to the community- oh- and pay fees. Doesn't leave much time for anything else really does it? All to prove devotion to the cause- the cause not being the kids- as we thought when we embarked on this- but the reincarnation bit. We learnt very quickly, that individuals weren't really the important thing- we were told that by someone.

"I liken it to people asking me for the number of my Naturopath (...). Now I give the number with the warning that if they are sceptical and have no faith in iridology (...) then they shouldn't waste everyones time."

Agreed 100%. This is why religious/spiritual/faith-based schools like Waldorf Steiner need to be upfront about their system and beliefs that guide their education.

Personally, I don't even care to know what you call "Naturopath", but apparently he conjures some magic that doesn't work if one doesn't believe in it (surprise). I did look up "iridology" and was genuinely surprised that at this day and age there are people who consider patterns on one's iris a diagnostic tool.

If you were telling me this face to face, you would see me laugh out loud. So would the Steiner people I interviewed before sending them the cheques for DD's inscription, if they were honest enough to mention any of the words spiritual, spirit, soul, reincarnation, or even homeopathy.

Yet they didn't. Even to my questions, their answers were vague and misleading. "Children start the day with poems". How nice. Until you learn it is in fact the same 'poem' every day, which is a prayer to 'the spirit of God'. Eek.

Thenew- it's obvious- because they're full of people like you!
And your kids!

Ours didn't- it got satisfactory as its highest grade- and ALOT of recommendations.

And- they pull the wool over eyes- because offsted is very clear with independent schools-they
"don't expect schools to conform to a particular structure. They are judged on how well they fulfil their aims and how appropriate their aims are to the context and the needs of their pupils."
So as long as Steiner schools present a reasonable set of aims- which presumably don't include contacting the spirit world, and reincarnating the children- but includes the usual stuff about head, heart and hands- they'll pass the criteria test. Clever eh?
But- as they're trying for state funding- at the moment there's some in depth look at them- so who knows- maybe the anthroposophy will emerge. I really hope so.

Thenew- when I look at this it just strikes me as quite culty really- they don't want you to be able to do anything else; and I think the continual obsession with fundraising also strikes me as culty- they're well-off some of these organisations- you can look up their accounts on the web- but it's good to have people give their all to a place- it gives control.

you said-
"well at our local school there is a feling of 'will be be accepted' as you have to show yourselves to be actively involved in the school, the school does an awful lot to demonstrate the level of involvement that they expect from families in their childrens schooling. the school also talk very early on about finances,

bumptobabies- are you considering camphill houseparenting?
Have you read the whole thread?
Have you read Steiner?
Do you believe in reincarnation?
Do you believe all humans have the ability to communicate with the spirit world?
Do you believe that learning difficulties, dyslexia,lefthandedness and bullying are to do with incarnation problems?
Do you believe in the medieval practice of dividing and labelling people into the four temperaments?
Do you believe in gnomes? Angels? Cosmic and astral forces?
That man evolved on the legendary island of Atlantis?- was around at the same time as dinasaurs?
Yes?
Then Steiner school's for you!

thenew you asked -
"are you saying they are trying to get the kids to join this secret cult thing you keep going on about?"

No- I've never once said they are trying to get anyone to join any secret cult - they don't even mention anthroposophy - to the children, to the parents initially- ( after a while- they drop in invitations to meetings- if they feeel you're ready, or suceptible) See the Michael Hall prospectus- where they even admit this is what happens-

"From the moment of their arrival the new family will notice the friendly, relaxed approach ? and soon, after more involvement, they may realise that ideals of a far-reaching nature and a complex picture of the human being ? Anthroposophy ? lie at the heart of it all.

The teachers have instruction in anthroposohy as part of their training. They are commonly mentored as new teachers- and would also want to please their mentor.
As an esoteric knowledge- that's what they call it- not me- the full knowledge is only known to a very few- everyone else is "on the path"- including- I gather - a good many teachers.

Too much camomile? In a daze? Didn't catch any of the earlier stuff on this?

"are you saying they are trying to get the kids to join this secret cult thing you keep going on about?"

The secrecy is in the fact that they don't let on that everything- from what colour clothes your kids wear- no black- certain colours- to how they paint, dance, what they learn when, the temperaments, left handednesss, bullying, is informed by anthroposopohy- every choice about our precious kids - is based on the ravings of a so-called clairvoyant guru.
But surely you're aware of all this- being so well informed when you made choices about your kids?
You weren't like us stupid ones- who only met teachers, went to open days and read books recommended by them.
I'm sorry to be sarcastic- but it's just like going round and round in circles.
I really can't see if you're playing dumb- or you really aren't very well informed.

Aswell as having their own way of painting, way of playing, way of incarnating, banking, way of farming, medicine, therapy, toys, way of moving, clothing, way of talking, they even have their own steiner typeface - you even have to type a certain way!

steinertastic!

no sharp edges here

bumptobabies - The best thing to do is research Steiner and the education and then all other types of education.

If you are considering Steiner, then I would suggest visiting a couple of their schools. Speak to the teachers, admin and the parents and ask as many questions as possible.

1/ the curriculum
2/the temperaments and why they use them (sanguine, choleric, phlegmatic, melancholic)
3/the daily verses and why they use them 4/the festivals and what do they mean
5/the parental involvement
6/the fund raising and why do we do it
7/Rudolf Steiner
8/the spiritual side and to define it
9/the teacher, parent, child roles and the 7 year cycles 0-7,7-14,14-21
10/and of course anthroposophy

FYI - My children are in a Steiner school and I haven't experienced the shoite that the northern fugee has. My children surf the internet, watch TV, listen to music, play on PS2, eat crisps and chocolate, and sometimes when I feel like it, a big fat juicy burger or chicken nuggets and chips! Admittedly, only on a weekend or school holiday.

Absolutely Steinertastic!

Wow barking- I've never seen that- it's fab.

The rooms and architecture too- all curvy and spiritual- oohh-

...Aswell as having their own way of painting, way of playing, way of incarnating, banking, way of farming, medicine, therapy, toys, way of moving, clothing, way of talking, they even have their own steiner typeface - you even have to type a certain way!

steinertastic!....

RLMFAO - you gotta love it!

We spit on you 'times bold'!

'helvetica' be gone you hussy!

'sagittar' and 'virgo' (what else?) with "their sculptural qualities are an attempt to bring living forces to typeface design".