Steiner/Waldorf Schools - requesting info from those in the know...

[Rantmum]

...anyone know anything about the Steiner/Waldorf school system, pros and cons (particularly with reference to early years/primary education, but any info is good!. Had not really given them too much consideration but have recently moved and met several mothers who speak highly of the their approach.

do children choose their parents?
An anthropologoposhiphist replies....

lush - So you changed your mind on French detesting Germans?

Yes, Guyard was given a slap on the wrist because his research methods were not found adequate (depended on written testimonies rather than interviews, did not visit Steiner schools, etc).

That case was appealed a year later and he was cleared of slander charges with an assessment of 'good faith', and with the statement that the judge could not be the judge of the quality of his commission's work. All detailed here if you feel like reading a bit of French.

"a poster on here used as a defence to claim Steiner is a cult"

I did not 'claim Steiner is a cult'. I showed the French government report that said so.

In fact, for those of us whose understanding of such fine distinction is impaired by selective perception, I clearly said:

'By CoteDAzur on Thu 17-Jan-08 16:53:48

Before you go "Ooh it's not a cult, we've been there, it's lovely" etc, I don't know if Steiner schools are a cult. The French Government certainly thinks so, though.'

Good effort, though.

Certainly an improvement over "gave this serious consideration and reviewed with DH" and decided French government said so because they hate Germans.

...Yes, Guyard was given a slap on the wrist because his research methods were not found adequate (depended on written testimonies rather than interviews, did not visit Steiner schools, etc)....

Are you trying to say you knew all along?

...So you changed your mind on French detesting Germans?...

When did I say that?

You got me confused with someone else dear!

...In fact, for those of us whose understanding of such fine distinction is impaired by selective perception...

Yes I agree with you there!

...I did not 'claim Steiner is a cult'. I showed the French government report that said so.....

Flip I am now gonna have to read 15 pages now. If I have misread you I apologise in advance.

Whoops too many nows there - blooming red wine!

...I showed the French government report that said so.....

And I was showing the readers that he was found guilty of slander - Thanks for the update though.

lush - Sorry I did confuse you with AussieSim there for a while

"I was showing the readers that he was found guilty of slander"

.. which was overturned on appeal. And we know what that means, right? It means the original conviction does not mean anything.

June 1999 government report on cults which includes Steiner schools is still on the parliament's website, by the way. I guess they don't feel that it's so wrong that it should be taken off the net.

This is what the court of appeals said in its judgement:

Basically, the appeal court says the previous court was wrong to doubt the seriousness of Guyard commission's report on cults (incl. Anthroposophie/Steiner schools).

The appeal court then adds that this movement is in fact considered to be a cult not only by this commission but also by a government commission in Belgium, a 1997 report on "renseignements generaux" (not sure how to translate this), and many specialists of cult movements.

I'm not a great translator, but you get the idea.

Le Tribunal avait mis en doute le sérieux de l'enquête. A tort, selon la Cour d'appel, car "le sérieux de l'enquête ne peut être mis en doute puisque la commission d'enquête a recueilli pendant six mois témoignages et documents sur le mouvement sectaire, notamment sur l'anthroposophie".

La Cour ajoute que ce mouvement est "d'ailleurs considéré comme une secte non seulement par la commission d'enquête française, mais aussi par une commission d'enquête belge, un rapport des Renseignements généraux de 1997 et les spécialistes du mouvement sectaire".

Il était "légitime pour M. Guyard de présenter le rapport d'une commission d'enquête qu'il présidait", explique la Cour, qui relève que l'expression de M. Guyard, commentant l'émergence de cette nouvelle secte, était "rudente" et dépourvue d'animosité.

www.vigi-sectes.org/articles/art-juridique.html

I am reading up about Guyard and from my understanding, he was allowed off because of his exemplary record at Parliament(good faith) but they still stand by his defamatory remarks - they will be kept on record.

NR You are making it sound like I have been happy clappy all along and only just discovered all of this. I know that Anthroposophy has been questioned before. I know about the court case in the US,(FYI - I found the PLANS website 4 weeks before my children started school, I think I did say that before on here).

I will repeat what I said earlier, I know my children very well. I know that they both struggle to learn through a structured, pushy environment especially my youngest child.

I am not here to to defend Anthroposophy, its a minefield and is taking up way too much time of my time. It doesn't pay my wage and I must get on with more serious work that brings in the moular.

thank you people for info sorry for delay computer playing up. lush really pleased to hear that the internet is not banned in your house it wouldnt be in ours. it is ruskin mills we are looking into in stroud, we are going for a visit in feb. we have looked around steiner schools the one near st albans i rather liked it i think it will add to dds rather academic independant schooling so far. im not too into there belief system nor would i be to send dd to c of e school it is about what will make her a more rounded person and now i think the pressure academically could do with being lifted i notice her tics are comming back, she is on mild mild tourettes specturum. think it would be good for the whole family dh wants a job that is rewarding he is a buider and is looking forward to teaching students skills, i have worked in social care for yrs and im training as a therapist so it feel right.

lush - "reading up about Guyard and from my understanding, he was allowed off because of his exemplary record at Parliament(good faith)"

Huh? How can that be 'your understanding'??? That Is NOT What 'Good Faith' Means!

Let's use it in a sentence:
'He acted on good faith'.

Let's look at the frequently used Latin equivalent:
'bona fide/bona fides'

Or let's Google things we don't really understand before making laughable assertions that start with 'from my understanding'

Hi bump,
I would certainly find out all you can about the Steiner school for your children - "difficulties" are dealt with in their own special way- as has been illustrated on this site-reincarnation problems etc, which, imo, can be far more damaging than mainstream thought on the subjects.

Ruskin Mill looks a beautiful place- their ideas look wonderful too. I can't quite make out if they are rooted in anthroposophy ? Do you know?

Ruskin was certainly influenced by Steiner- and a few of their links are related to Steiner Waldorf /anthro organisations.

The University of Trees looks a bit way out there

"We need to develop new organs of perception and explore new forms of consciousness. This will contribute to perceiving what needs to be done and to developing new forms of being in the world"

"The main forum creates a 'space' in the world, and in the imagination, for working with the trees as our teachers "

"The bands are placed on the trees above eye level, just out of the reach of a tall adult. The bands are made of pure wool felt with yellow-gold lettering and wrap around the bark of the tree. They are protected with lanolin or latex"

Rudolf Steiner

"Thus it is really very interesting: on the one hand there is the black race, which is the most earthly. When this race goes toward the West, it dies out. Then there is the yellow race, in the middle between the earth and the cosmos. When this race goes toward the East, it turns brown, it attaches itself too much to the cosmos and dies out. The white race is the race of the future, the spiritually creative race."

"Very few inventions have been made in Asia. They can assemble things, but as for inventions themselves, that is, that which arises from experience with the external world, the Asians cannot do this. [...] This sort of independent thinking which Europeans develop in dealing with their surroundings, the Asians do not have this. The Japanese will therefore follow all the European inventions, but they will never think up something on their own."

Why don't the anthroposophist apologists come out publicly to denounce this bollocks?

Do they still believe it?

When your child starts a Steiner education- the parental involvement is superfluous- the teacher has a "sacred task" -so all the stuff about knowing and being involved with your kids education doesn't mean anything to the schools-

Rudolf Steiner

"You will have to take over children for their education and instruction - children who will have received already the education, or mis-education given them by their parents ... But when we receive the children into the school we will be able to make up for many things that have been done wrongly, or left undone, in the first years of the child's life."

And here is the Belgian parliamentary inquiry into the cults operating in their country (1997) that features Anthroposophy and Steiner schools:

Part I and Part II.

pg 98:

In summary, Anthroposophy has had good results in education but quite bad results in medicine, notably as seen in the death of little Annaelle, who was being treated by persons who were practicing medicine according to Steiner's aberrant teachings that said the blood circulation made the heart beat and not the other way around.
This movement has its own pharmaceutical industry and has recently built a financial holding company.

pg 292:

Witness account from a closed session, that talks about unexplained financial stuff, members abandoning family & careers, practice of a different medicine, etc.

There is probably more stuff on Anthroposophy on this report but frankly I can't be bothered to read any more of it.

This is Steiner's view on educating children-

"This education is essentially grounded on the recognition of the child as a spiritual being, with a varying number of incarnations behind him, who is returning at birth into the physical world, into a body that will be slowly moulded into a usable instrument by the soul-spiritual forces he brings with him."

Barking- I just quickly read through tha anthro- karmic-pain/ love/ article Good Grief!

Hi Bump

my ds1 has Tourette's Syndrome - I really, really wouldn't recommend Steiner education for anyone with special needs - our experience was truly appalling and not uncommon

please think very, very carefully ...