Do private schools give bursaries/scholarships to parents with decent salaries?

[Alyosha]

I feel certain that the answer to this will be "no" but wanted to check.

We have two DS, 3 and 3 months. We both have good jobs, joint salary is over £100k, very comfortable and we have no complaints about our standard of living. We live in London, where private school fees seem to have gone absolutely nuts. I went to SHHS which was £9k pa by time I left in 2007; so very expensive but would be just about affordable for me & DH for 2 DCs. Occasionally they send me a begging letter asking me to donate for their fund to build a world class music centre...can't say I'm too motivated to donate now their fees are pushing £20k pa.

I can't see any way that we could afford school fees for both boys in 2- 3 year's time even with our good incomes. But looking at the support available it's only if you're earning under £80k. But there's no way I would have thought a family jointly earning £80k could afford £20k in school fees for 2 children (£40k net a year!) with mortgage, council tax, utilities, groceries etc.

So our only option would be a scholarship, but most scholarships seem to be 20% max off fees, which doesn't make them affordable, especially not long term. Is there anywhere that has substantial fee remission for a scholarship in commuting distance of North London, either primary or secondary?

This is of course assuming the DCs would even get scholarships, which I realise is a tall order!

@NeverRTFT this is the thing...all the comments originally were very much in disbelief that we couldn't afford it! But we genuinely can't! As you say most people these days are even more wealthy than I & DH. DH & I very very aware that we are exceptionally fortunate.

I'm wondering how London private schools calculate their affordability measures. Are they assuming people are mortgage/debt free? Or that people should downsize?

Private schooling is a luxury item so I suppose it makes sense that they would expect you to sell up to afford it.

Try Temple choir or St George's Windsor, AFAIK neither requires boarding. But you are gambling on good voices and that they'll be sustained. Family attendance at services, overseas trips etc - its major.

Honestly? You're going to have to drive hard for this. Obviously if you posted on MN 'I'm on £100k a year and I'm not well off' you'd be torn to pieces. But the truth is, for private schools in London, you aren't rich enough. They can do fine without you. If you want private secondary education for your children, you are going to have to hustle. And you may not like that image of yourself.

@Glassofshloer and what would your advice be?

[quote Alyosha]@Glassofshloer and what would your advice be?[/quote]
State school? I mean if you can’t afford it, but you can afford to live somewhere next to a brilliant state school and give your kids some extra tuition, how is that not the answer?

@PermanentTemporary thanks, this is exactly it. We're very well off but we're not well off enough for expensive London private education. thanks for the school suggestion - I'll take a look & get my DC singing lessons!

As you say, if we want it we will probably have to downsize, move further out etc. Not sure it's worth it; we'll have to see what things look like later on.

@Glassofshloer No objections to state school here. And private tutoring can be great. I think private schools do offer something extra though; you can see that in terms of how they are (unfairly) advantaged over state school kids through university & after too.

No, 'most people these days' are not more wealthy than you. A very small proportion are. 6% of children are at private school. The vast majority go to state school and do well because engaged supportive parents make a huge contribution to education. Your children lives won't be ruined if they have to mix with poor children.

…but you aren’t well off, not enough anyway.

@Clymene very amusing to see you & @Twolostsoulsswimminginafishbow comments next to each other.

But anyway, yes I know we are in the top 6%. I was referring to those who send their kids to private school in London now, who are often even wealthier.

No, I meant that 6% of children are privately educated. Your income isn't much above average. The average full time salary was just under £39,000 last year according to the ONS.

But you are still much much better off than most people; just not well off enough to afford private school fees

Most people who educate their children privately earn at least £200k

Tbh I used to have a higher income than that in London abs no way could I afford private school. I think you have to maybe focus on trying to get them into a good state school

[quote Alyosha]@Glassofshloer No objections to state school here. And private tutoring can be great. I think private schools do offer something extra though; you can see that in terms of how they are (unfairly) advantaged over state school kids through university & after too.[/quote]
I really don’t think this is so much the case any more, and certainly won’t be in 15 odd years.

It could actually be a hindrance in ways.

@Glassofshloer

Well 🤷🏼‍♀️ I would like a holiday home in southern France but don’t earn very much, does anyone know where I can get one for a tenner? Thanks peeps x

It very much depends on whether your parents had one. If so, then yes it should definitely be affordable for you. You deserve it.

@mewkins I feel like you're implying something but can't quite work out what. Could you make it a bit clearer please?

@Glassofshloer it most definitely is sadly. Even grammar schools don't really get near what private schools do in terms of % admitted. And then when kids leave university, private school kids with worse results do better than state school kids with excellent marks.

I see the inside of a few London private schools and some good state secondaries and think you need to reflect on just how much you want to pay for “extras” if you can move to be near a good London state secondary. What will be the value of those extras and how will having that private school name on a ucas form/cv work out in 20 years time? I have gone back and forth on this question, tempted by the music, sport and ‘polish’, but ultimately have decided To put my bets on a great state option plus all the extra-curricular I can offer them in London opening more doors in the long run.

In general, scholarships are awarded for excellence of some sort: academic, musical, sport etc and family income is not relevant; bursaries are means assessed and the assessment should take capital and assets into account as well as income.

@mewkins lol

Why don't you start saving? That's what we did. Made loads of sacrifices and ended up having several years worth of fees in the pot before our daughter started

@Kandinskysnail very sympathetic to this point of view. I had a mostly good education at SHHS; I would say everything bar English & Foreign languages was taught well. At the time I went to school (started in 2000) the state options were nowhere near as good as they are now, so the difference was far greater.

I think just from how unequal we still are as a country, private school kids will still have a substantial unfair advantage.

But I'm sure they will still do fine, and as you say we would be able to save money towards them owning their own home, music lessons, sports etc. Think we are realistically going to end up with state which is a great option especially in London.

Bursaries are means tested, and they are, quite rightly, for families on a low income, to allow those children access to opportunities they would not have otherwise. On your income, you may not be able to manage school fees, but you can afford music lessons, tutoring, sports clubs, theatre trips and so on. Your children are extremely privileged, whether they go to an independent or state school.

@courtshoe We are saving! But it's eaten up by my mat leave at the moment. Then we will continue to save but reduced potential as we will have 2 in full time nursery ( ££££ in London). Don't think we will be able to save enough for long term sustainable private school fees.

We have a higher income than that and get 25% off. Given that you pay fees out of taxed income it is hugely expensive, much more than my large mortgage a month. But we have 4 children so that may be why we get the discount as we simply couldn’t afford to pay it otherwise. We both work, private schools don’t seem to like households where one person is at home. Once we have paid school fees we cannot afford holidays abroad or fancy cars and big ticket expenditure makes me anxious. We pay a lot against our leftover income and are expected to remortgage etc to draw down equity too.

Bursaries / scholarships are mainly reserved for those that do best on the entrance exam too. So if you have a child that is extremely bright you might find that the bursar has more flex.

@HelloDulling Not sure we can really argue that a family on £70/£80k is unable to afford extracurriculars unless they get a fee reduced place at a private school.

But I take your wider point, our kids will definitely be fine. I think I have some guilt for not being able to give them what my parents gave me.

At secondary level there are definitely schools which offer non-means tested academic and other scholarships.