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Original poster

Do private schools give bursaries/scholarships to parents with decent salaries?

426 replies

Alyosha · 30/11/2021 19:33

I feel certain that the answer to this will be "no" but wanted to check.

We have two DS, 3 and 3 months. We both have good jobs, joint salary is over £100k, very comfortable and we have no complaints about our standard of living. We live in London, where private school fees seem to have gone absolutely nuts. I went to SHHS which was £9k pa by time I left in 2007; so very expensive but would be just about affordable for me & DH for 2 DCs. Occasionally they send me a begging letter asking me to donate for their fund to build a world class music centre...can't say I'm too motivated to donate now their fees are pushing £20k pa.

I can't see any way that we could afford school fees for both boys in 2- 3 year's time even with our good incomes. But looking at the support available it's only if you're earning under £80k. But there's no way I would have thought a family jointly earning £80k could afford £20k in school fees for 2 children (£40k net a year!) with mortgage, council tax, utilities, groceries etc.

So our only option would be a scholarship, but most scholarships seem to be 20% max off fees, which doesn't make them affordable, especially not long term. Is there anywhere that has substantial fee remission for a scholarship in commuting distance of North London, either primary or secondary?

This is of course assuming the DCs would even get scholarships, which I realise is a tall order!

OP posts:
Original poster
Alyosha · 03/12/2021 14:46

no more gift aid!

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naaaahhh · 03/12/2021 14:50

@Alyosha PLEASE don't compare a year as an EFL tutor to being a state school teacher in a thriving, bustling, 'good' London state school. Blimey.
Right, logging off now.

scaevola · 03/12/2021 14:53

@Alyosha

no more gift aid!
Gift Aid? On what?

PTA and bursary funds are likely to be able to as charities - just as they are in schools that are businesses and (for the former) state schools. t

Original poster
Alyosha · 03/12/2021 15:10

@naaaahhh apologies if that was unclear - you were asking if I had ever met a teenager, or indeed anyone at all, I assume in a hyperbolic way.

I was letting you know that I have met many teenagers, as I was once a teenager myself and I have taught around 40 of them too.

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Original poster
Alyosha · 03/12/2021 15:10

@scaevola on donations & bequests? Surely you can't just give a business £20k tax free? Or maybe you can.

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scaevola · 03/12/2021 15:20

[quote Alyosha]@scaevola on donations & bequests? Surely you can't just give a business £20k tax free? Or maybe you can.[/quote]
A business no. An associated charity, then same rules as all charities.

PTAs, both independent and state sectors, are frequently charities. Bursary funds can also be.

Crispleaves · 03/12/2021 15:26

I’m confused about where you’re going with the charity status argument. I fail to see how offering more bursaries to families with incomes far above the national average with help with demonstrating charitable status. The last I checked MPs were falling over themselves to send their children to state schools (but only the good ones, of course). Not sure about journos but not sure of their significance here either. Personally I struggle to see the justification for charitable status at all, it generally only helps a very select few who are often fairly privileged to begin with even if the fees aren’t affordable. I can see the benefit to the student population of having a more diverse group of children at the school, but that’s not exactly a “charitable” cause.

Original poster
Alyosha · 03/12/2021 15:50

@scaevola A lot of donations people make to private schools are for capital expenditure, like new buildings/equipment. I assume (although I don't know for certain), that you cannot give e.g. Unilever a generous tax free gift so they can build their new offices in Kingston.

@Crispleaves I agree on charitable status. I think what annoys me is that private schools in London are so much more expensive than elsewhere. Of course this is a function of London weighting salaries/cost of living/everything being higher. But it's also because private schools seem to have decided to invest their money in facilities when they could have focused just on providing a good education. I'd choose a no-frills private school!

I appreciate I'm being silly; Baumol's cost disease means that private schools are bound to become out of the reach of all but the most rich at some point or another - the facilities arms race has only hastened an inevitable process.

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Crispleaves · 03/12/2021 15:56

I find this discussion hard because the very existence of private schools is about providing something exclusive and out of reach of the many. There is no moral argument as to where that line is drawn. Why do the traditional middle classes feel it’s unfair/something’s gone wrong when they can’t afford it but fine when the other 90% couldn’t afford it.

Megan1992xx · 03/12/2021 16:02

@Crispleaves

I find this discussion hard because the very existence of private schools is about providing something exclusive and out of reach of the many. There is no moral argument as to where that line is drawn. Why do the traditional middle classes feel it’s unfair/something’s gone wrong when they can’t afford it but fine when the other 90% couldn’t afford it.
Totally agree, given the proportion of pupils at private schools now domiciled outside the UK as they are the only ones that can afford the fees, it seems bizarre that these private schools benefit from any type of subsidy based on charitable status. I have been told that the shopkeeper on the high street of the town closest to Eton College pays more tax than Eton College. Charitable status no longer appropriate I am afraid!
naaaahhh · 03/12/2021 16:05

@Megan1992xx my DB was at Eton and if we are talking about the same shop they made more money than most law firms from selling ciggies and booze to the boys. But not as much as the savvy drug dealers who tout for business on the high street these days, they aren’t daft and know exactly where to do their best trading!

Megan1992xx · 03/12/2021 16:13

[quote naaaahhh]@Megan1992xx my DB was at Eton and if we are talking about the same shop they made more money than most law firms from selling ciggies and booze to the boys. But not as much as the savvy drug dealers who tout for business on the high street these days, they aren’t daft and know exactly where to do their best trading![/quote]
If this is true then charitable status is helping fund directly moral turpitude as well as encouraging criminal behaviour.

Original poster
Alyosha · 03/12/2021 16:14

@Crispleaves You've answered your own question there! Of course when people feel like they can't afford it, it becomes a problem for them. The issue for private schools is that now they've priced out the wealthy professionals, they're quickly on a ratchet to pricing out anyone who relies on a salary for a living. They'll be (more) reliant on the global ultra-rich; very many will have to close but the most elite will remain, with most children paying no fees. Kind of like Harvard, and other American ultra-elite secondary schools & universities.

@naaaahhh When I moved into rented accommodation in my second year at uni I got given the business cards of 2 drug dealers, both of whom sped past in taxis, presumably having spotted us moving in.

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MarshaBradyo · 03/12/2021 16:17

I’d keep charitable status, but also if you’re after a bursary op you might want to check this situation if it is removed.

SirSidneyRuffDiamond · 03/12/2021 16:18

Our household income is a bit over £100k. DS gets a discount of 20% due to his father's occupation and a further 10% discount deducted from that reduced fee for securing an academic scholarship.

Newgirls · 03/12/2021 16:20

There is a high percentage of only children at private school, due to the affordability issue

SirSidneyRuffDiamond · 03/12/2021 16:21

At DS's school 60% of pupils benefit from occupational discounts, charity funded places or scholarships.

Crispleaves · 03/12/2021 16:23

[quote Alyosha]@Crispleaves You've answered your own question there! Of course when people feel like they can't afford it, it becomes a problem for them. The issue for private schools is that now they've priced out the wealthy professionals, they're quickly on a ratchet to pricing out anyone who relies on a salary for a living. They'll be (more) reliant on the global ultra-rich; very many will have to close but the most elite will remain, with most children paying no fees. Kind of like Harvard, and other American ultra-elite secondary schools & universities.

@naaaahhh When I moved into rented accommodation in my second year at uni I got given the business cards of 2 drug dealers, both of whom sped past in taxis, presumably having spotted us moving in.[/quote]
It’s only a problem for them if they think they’re entitled to it but can’t afford it. The problem is the entitlement…

Original poster
Alyosha · 03/12/2021 16:25

@Crispleaves Is it? Private schools themselves are worried about pricing out people like me. So they clearly think it's a problem. Perhaps they should run an advertising campaign to tell us to keep our aspirations in check. Should be popular.

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Original poster
Alyosha · 03/12/2021 16:26

@SirSidneyRuffDiamond very interesting - is this in London or the South East?

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Crispleaves · 03/12/2021 16:27

Also as referenced previously the London private schools have people fighting over their places. No sign that for the schools you’re speaking of, they’re pricing themselves out of a market and will have to close, quite the opposite! I’m sure any school that is unable to fill its places will do logical thing and go for the no-frills option you mention rather than close (or convert to state and fling open their doors, which many did in the past).

SirSidneyRuffDiamond · 03/12/2021 16:28

Not London, but only about an hour outside.

Original poster
Alyosha · 03/12/2021 16:32

@Crispleaves That's not really my point though - not that no one can afford them so they'll have to close, but that no one will politically support them, so they'll find life more difficult and more expensive, ratcheting up costs further and closing some of the weaker schools (mostly outside London I would think, many have already closed in the past few years) whilst the most elite become essentially needs blind, like e.g. Philips Exeter in the US.

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Newgirls · 03/12/2021 16:46

I don’t think fee paying schools have to worry just yet as we have lots of wealthy Hong Kong expats arriving at the moment. The world is ever changing.

scaevola · 03/12/2021 17:01

A lot of donations people make to private schools are for capital expenditure, like new buildings/equipment. I assume (although I don't know for certain), that you cannot give e.g. Unilever a generous tax free gift so they can build their new offices in Kingston

You can give just about any person or entity a gift. It's just a case of how they tax man will see it. The recipient of a gift may or may not have to pay tax on it (lots of rules on this).

The donor wouldn't collect the Gift Aid in the first place so lack of that should not inhibit giving, though of course there would no longer be tax relief for giving shares or land to a charity.