Do private schools give bursaries/scholarships to parents with decent salaries?

[Alyosha]

I feel certain that the answer to this will be "no" but wanted to check.

We have two DS, 3 and 3 months. We both have good jobs, joint salary is over £100k, very comfortable and we have no complaints about our standard of living. We live in London, where private school fees seem to have gone absolutely nuts. I went to SHHS which was £9k pa by time I left in 2007; so very expensive but would be just about affordable for me & DH for 2 DCs. Occasionally they send me a begging letter asking me to donate for their fund to build a world class music centre...can't say I'm too motivated to donate now their fees are pushing £20k pa.

I can't see any way that we could afford school fees for both boys in 2- 3 year's time even with our good incomes. But looking at the support available it's only if you're earning under £80k. But there's no way I would have thought a family jointly earning £80k could afford £20k in school fees for 2 children (£40k net a year!) with mortgage, council tax, utilities, groceries etc.

So our only option would be a scholarship, but most scholarships seem to be 20% max off fees, which doesn't make them affordable, especially not long term. Is there anywhere that has substantial fee remission for a scholarship in commuting distance of North London, either primary or secondary?

This is of course assuming the DCs would even get scholarships, which I realise is a tall order!

@Alyosha not an excessively big mortgage I wouldn't say. And not at boarding or particularly expensive private school!

Personally on 100k it would be too much of a sacrifice for me. It would be stressful and I don't think you could rely on a Scholarships etc. I'd get yourself in a good area with a good state school.

@butwhatcanwedo

I haven’t read the full thread but two things.

Firstly the joint £100k is gross and will be far less after tax and NI. How much less depends specifically on how the income is split. For instance one salary of £100k pays more tax and NI than two lots of £50k

Secondly scholarships are meant to be based on merit so won’t necessarily be means tested but some schools might do so. Bursaries tend to be means tested and not based on merit.

Scholarships are far less generous typically than they used to be. I was a full fees scholar at one school and about 3/4 fees at another which is probably now very rare.

Be aware of ongoing expectations for scholars. At some schools it’s a lot of added pressure for children to maintain standards and be in the spotlight. Scholars are effectively marketing tools for schools so there are two sides to the coin.

It's common for schools to give children who are offered scholarships priority for bursaries. It would be bizarre to expect a child who just scrapes through the entrance exam and has no talents to be offered a bursary. At my DC's school one of the boarders was on a 100% weekly boarding scholarship plus bursary - single parent family in a council house, and the girl was a multi-talented genius, apparently.

@DietrichandDiMaggio

The problem is that if the child is not in the top 2 sets there is likely to be disruption in the classroom at a 'bog' standard comprehensive. In this case tutoring maybe required or if class sizes are too big.

Well, if the OP is hoping for scholarships, presumably she's expecting her children would be top set material. Also I think it sounds like she lives close to outstanding, rather than bog-standard, schools.

The other issue is that it is damn hard to asses whether or not your 3 month old is hitting that top 2% target.............OP will find it a lot easier to work out the three year olds place in the academic pecking order.

@imamearcat

I don't know why everyone is say that £100k is loads. Our income is nearly double that, with 2 kids at private school we really feel the pinch. We are not in London either.

That is surprising. You must have other very significant regular outgoings (or still go on holiday, buy stuff etc) - or have two children at boarding schools. Though even then, you'd be left with a decent income by normal standards...

One thing I don't recommend, @Alyosha, is ending up with a long-term debt to a former school not that I would ever do this though I think you would be more sensible than that!

@imamearcat Hmm. I have to say that surprises me. What are you spending the money on? You're not on a funny tax code or something (double check!).

We are fortunate we are in an area with Good schools, not many Outstanding ones but that's not worth much these days when most of them were inspected about 13 years ago.

@viques The 3 year old seems pretty average to me. I have no idea what's normal or not, he certainly has a good memory and is doing well with his reading lessons, but I hear some 3 year olds teach themselves to read and can do sums etc. He's definitely not doing that!

@BoardingSchoolMater I don't know...my calculus is they'd be unlikely to pursue you for the balance in the courts

Mortgage, bills, cars, days out, meals, holidays. Just usual stuff. We do probably spend quite a lot on general living. But for me I wouldn't want to scrimp on life so I could send kids to private school, and I really think you would have to live very frugally with what you had left, especially in London. Why do that to yourself when you don't have to?

I don't think you can really tell how good a child will be academically when they're only 3. Just do the sensible thing and send them to state primary, and you'll find out over the next few years.

Another thing to think about it that once they are in you won't really feel like you can pull them out and put them into state school. It's such a massive commitment.

Well quite! We don't want to (and can't even if we did), hence the thread.

We are absolutely sending them to state primary school!

You could always save during the primary years and then with a bit more backup (and maybe higher salaries?) you could think about private secondary.

I do remember several girls leaving SHHS to go to state schools, all but one came back!

Interesting thing about SHHS, although a digression, I always felt it had a more bohemian vibe, and of my former classmates there's an interesting mix of careers - very successful entrepreneur, daily mail journo, fashion designer, poet, scientific researcher etc. None of those jobs earn anywhere near enough to send their kids to SHHS now. Yet the school constantly sends alumni begging letters, not to fund bursaries for the bright but less advantaged, but to upgrade yet more facilities. Does anyone know why they do this?

@imamearcat

Another thing to think about it that once they are in you won't really feel like you can pull them out and put them into state school. It's such a massive commitment.

Depending on the quality of the schools, of course. My DC went from private to grammar, and it was a big step up, in my opinion. The grammar was great, with much brighter pupils and a lovely atmosphere. But I remember a snobby teacher at the private school being really shocked that we were moving from private to state.

Oh goodness , ,

OP, I'm a single mum, with a ds at an independent. Fees are marginally less but not much. He goes there because he hated the state alternative and was miserable.

I earn about £50k gross which covers car/mortgage etc as well as school fees. I manage. I saved up for a few years before, drive a 12yo car, don't spend £££ on holidays but we have a nice life and it works.

You need to adjust your standard of living and decide what matters more to you.

daily mail journo

Christ, all that money down the drain!

@MintJulia move your son to SPS and enjoy full fee remission!

@DietrichandDiMaggio I know! And from SHHS too. what a pity the guardian doesn't appear to actually have any journalists these days

oh and our car is also 12 years old

It was 20 years ago that I left school, and parents negotiated on fees. I think it was a 15% bursary. Nobody asked to see their accounts. If they had they'd have seen a six figure income.

#inspirational

You will just have to let your dear children slum it at state school with all the other plebs. Unless you have a huge windfall or get a new career. Loads of time. Dont give up your dreams

[quote Alyosha]@imamearcat Hmm. I have to say that surprises me. What are you spending the money on? You're not on a funny tax code or something (double check!).

We are fortunate we are in an area with Good schools, not many Outstanding ones but that's not worth much these days when most of them were inspected about 13 years ago.

@viques The 3 year old seems pretty average to me. I have no idea what's normal or not, he certainly has a good memory and is doing well with his reading lessons, but I hear some 3 year olds teach themselves to read and can do sums etc. He's definitely not doing that!

@BoardingSchoolMater I don't know...my calculus is they'd be unlikely to pursue you for the balance in the courts[/quote]

@Storminamu

I don't think you can really tell how good a child will be academically when they're only 3. Just do the sensible thing and send them to state primary, and you'll find out over the next few years.

I'm not so sure. I think the really luminously (academically - and I stress academically) clever children are clearly so well before the age of 3.

However, the OP sounds very sane about all of this.

I was talking about academic children, not luminous children. My DC2 picked up reading extremely easily and enthusiastically and was reading very well at 3 - but I don't think that meant much. They're certainly no brighter than DC1, who struggled with learning to read and whose Reception teacher indicated to me that they were one of the thick ones. DC1 got an academic scholarship to secondary school and is now at Oxbridge.
To be fair, DC1's musicality was obvious from very early on - singing in tune before learning to speak.

@gammazitasigma Disappointed to see such a negative attitude towards state schools. We are fortunate that the state schools near us are pretty good right now and I'd be happy for the boys to go to them; but 8 years is a long time! I hope you take the time to read the rest of the thread so that you can see how state schools are not "slums" as you put it. :)

@Storminamu I agree. One of my most intelligent friends has an anecdote that he wasn't able to get into Highgate juniors back in the mists of time because he spent the interview running around hitting other children with a toy train. Anyway he has a first from Oxford, a PHD from Cambridge and lots of prestigious science things

I can’t see why state schools would get worse - generally in London

As more people get priced out of private they tend to get better

Around here anyway - one school people avoided is now getting better

8 years is a long time though so I’d see how it goes. You might be earning more by then anyway

Mainly because the current trajectory is pretty fragile, they've got better academically due to (IMO - controversial opinion) - more focus on behaviour, learning explicitly, higher standards in exams. As parents are priced out private schools they will send their kids to state schools, but whether or not that school has to be supplemented heavily with tutoring is what I'm concerned about.