Non grammar school areas - do you regret not having had a child have a chance of grammar school?

[mids2019]

I live in an area with no local grammar school but am aware of other parents that have made decisions to move into grammar school areas with their children gaining successful entry.

Does any one else sometimes feel they would have liked their child the opportunity to take the 11+?

I sometimes feel my children are vaguely aware of grammar/private schools where the 'bright kids go' and dont want them to feel educationally less esteemed.

TeenMinusTests
Yes

You can put on your CV that you went to XXX Grammar School if you think an employer in a different area might be impressed

@Bythemillpond

You can put on your CV that you went to XXX Grammar School if you think an employer in a different area might be impressed

You could. But would they? They'll look at your university career and work experience and if you don't have that they'll check your school exam results and work experience. I really don't think going to a grammar will trump anything

We live in a grammar area. Tutoring is the norm and I don't know of
many parents that don't use tutors for their children in Year 5.

Of my 3 DCs, 2 are currently at the local grammar in Years 8 and 9, both doing well.

My eldest didn't pass the 11+ so went to the local comp where he worked hard and did extremely well at GCSEs. He then transferred to grammar for his A levels.

When I asked him what the biggest difference was he said the behaviour of the students was much better and more conducive to learning at the grammar.

We live in a borough that borders two areas with a number of grammar schools and one with a couple of super selective grammars.

It's an option. It's not the only option as in area we have the choice of a range of comprehensives/academies most of which do well by their intakes.

It wasn't the right option for our eldest DD to go for grammar entry. I also had mixed feelings given the commute involved as I did similar as a secondary school student.

DD2 - maybe but tbh my heart wasn't really into the prep for 11 plus, or the messages that sending DD2 down a selective pathway send.

We can afford private but none of the local options wanted DD1 at junior school level due to mild SpLD. Repeat what I said above about sending DD2 down that pathway.

You'll do what you feel is right for you and your family, just wanted to say that don't feel that selective education is the only 'good school' pathway.

I didn’t know what a grammar school was or they even existed before I joined MM 😂
So no I do not regret not having grammar schools.

@Floppythedog

I didn’t know what a grammar school was or they even existed before I joined MM 😂 So no I do not regret not having grammar schools.

Really?

Grammar schools were around even before I was born, different then but the ethos was the same.

Tutoring was absolutely the norm in Sw London for Tiffin and a couple
Of the private schools which selected. I knew dozens of kids who went for Tiffin and only one wasn't tutored. She didn't get in. Despite eventually achieving a full set of A stars at the comp alternative and an eventual first in engineering at Bristol. Tutoring skews and is a racket IMO!

@Maggiesfarm

What about those who get a grammar school place who have not been tutored? I know a few who definitely did not have private tutoring. Their first school and their parents were very good though, encouraged exploration, research and learning as well as having fun.

That's very much the exception for our area. The 11+ has stuff in that isn't covered until later in Yr6. So tutors or parents teaching it is the only option. Parents may not say they are tutoring but I've only ever known one child get it who wasn't. And actually his primary gave him extra help as low income family. Teacher did it for them for free

In our areas parents typically spend £25-60 a week on tutors if trying for grammars. For at least a year. They figures it's still cheaper than 7 years of private schooling instead.

Tutoring isn't always successful anyway. There are plenty of kids who still fail despite a lot of tutoring which must be doubly disappointing.

My children weren't tutored for 11+ but that was 20 and 23 years ago. They went to a good grammar.

Perfectly possible not to be aware of grammar schools, there are only 163 out of over 4,000 secondary schools and some parts of the country don't have them at all.

I think it's virtually impossible to do without any familiarisation at all as the 11+ is not curriculum-based and the type of questions will be quite alien to a child who has never experienced them before.

As for tutoring it's an irregular verb, isn't it:
I help my child a little bit
She tutors them every week
They have hot-housed them since Y3

^As for tutoring it's an irregular verb, isn't it:
I help my child a little bit
She tutors them every week
They have hot-housed them since Y3^

And not forgetting the silent ending:

• We didn't tutor at all (but sent her to private prep which send 90% to state grammar)

There's 'we moved to an area with excellent state comprehensives surrounded by million pound houses so don't need to pay for education' as well.

Oh, yes that's a good one TeenMinusTests

We had 1 DC at GS, 1 DC at secondary modern. Could see the differences first hand… Ironically the DC who went to the secondary modern is the highly academic one.

Teen 47 and TeenMinusTests, well done!

@TeenMinusTests bet you're really good at verbal reasoning lol

That did make me giggle

There's other great irregular verbs for parents on MN:

• my child is lively and engaged
• your child is a bit impetuous
• her child is a pain in the neck

• my child only gets physical as self defence
• your child doesn't realise his own strength sometimes
• her child is a bully

• my child is lovely, but should be allowed to choose who to play with
• your child is lovely but sometimes upsets mine
• her child is mean and exclusionary

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

There's 'we moved to an area with excellent state comprehensives surrounded by million pound houses so don't need to pay for education' as well.

And then there's the vast bulk of families (like us) who send (or sent) their children to the local school in their community, and worked with it, warts and all. They don't move, they don't tutor, and they don't sharpen their elbows and make weird excuses for that behavior. Honestly only in MN Land do we get these weird cliches.

@shallIswim
Hear hear.
Teaching your children that they are no better than anyone else, only different. That no school or workplace is perfect, that they must work at things when they have problems. That they must stand on their own two feet, with only a gentle hand hold, and choose to work and find out what their strengths are, whatever other children are deciding to do.
Growing up in a school community that mirrors the community to be found outside the school gate is, in my book, the greatest privilege of all and the most terrific springboard to real life.

Aroundtheworldin80moves

There's 'we moved to an area with excellent state comprehensives surrounded by million pound houses so don't need to pay for education' as well.
......
I don't get that, am I missing something?

Nice to have good state comprehensives, equally to have fine houses but ..... ?

So are grammars effectively a substitute for private schooling? In terms of ethos and results is there much of a difference?

@mids2019
No not really. You generally get children at grammars whose parents cannot afford private education and then a small percentage who can afford but choose not to. My friend, who was hoping that it was going to be a free private school substitute, was shocked this week as her son had a zoom intro to his year 7 tutor group for next year and one of the boys talked about his biting problem!…private schools can and do turn away children with problems that they deem to be unsavoury for their client base - grammar schools can’t (and are therefore richer places for it in my opinion but others would disagree.)
Grammars can be worse funded than comps - always check out individual funding as it will have an influence on quality of teaching staff. (NB The teachers aren’t better, just have a more able cohort.) anecdotally in my area the behaviour at the single sex boys grammar is much worse than the private schools. You get many children whose siblings didn’t make the grade and are at the comps (more like secondary modern in grammar areas) and so there is a lot of mixing and sharing of drug dealing etc between the different schools.

I live in a grammar area, and have a ds at grammar, where he is absolutely thriving and a dd sitting the test in Sept.

I wish grammars didn’t exist though. I was pro-grammar right up to the day ds took his test and I saw a whole procession of ten-year-old boys, accompanied by one parent or two, quietly walking through the gates with their pencils in a plastic bag.

I hadn’t processed the fact - until that point - that there were 400 lovely, hopeful, bright ten-year-old boys sitting the test that day and 250 of them would be disappointed.

It’s not fair that your secondary education is determined by one morning in September, and I am sad for the boys who didn’t get the opportunity to go to such a good school.

But ds passed the test and got a place and loves it. Dd has her sights set on another grammar in the area and I won’t stop her as it’d be unfair. But I know I’ll hate the test day when I see all the girls go into the school and do the maths about how many won’t get a place.

@LemonWeb insightful. How many of the 250 will have invested huge amounts £££ in tutoring too. An industry in its own right