50% in 11+ practice... 3 months to go, what to do?

[CherryLeaf]

Hi all, I’d really like your advice on what we should do next.
We’re a military family, moved recently into a grammar school area. Dd currently finishing yr 5 so will take 11+ in Sept.
Dd is bright, always been ahead in her classes in English and Maths despite numerous military moves (3 schools in last 3 years!). We are finally stopping here and I’d love to give her the chance to go to grammar school as I think she would excel there. We have the study books and have been working through for last 2 months but it’s a mammoth task! No tutoring available as all full. Local tutor was able to offer practice test, which she did and got average 50% over the 4 areas. It seems 75-85% is needed generally. I don’t know if I should help her try to get there, or if the gap is too big now. I’ve asked her what she would like and she’s not sure. I’m unsure if she knows much about what the difference would be in her life, and honestly I don’t know either. I just know she’s bright and feel she is just unfamiliar with this style of test/questions.
If you were in my shoes what would you do next? Thanks

Which grammar school area are you in? We live in Sutton (south London), the grammars here are super selective and the competition is fierce, but I've heard that other regions such as Kent are not quite as selective so she may well have a chance.
You still have 3 months to go and a lot of improvement can take place in the coming months if she is willing to work hard. Make sure you spend time with her going over the areas that she is getting wrong and doing targeted practice on her weaker areas. My DD2 struggled with english writing so we focused all our efforts on improving her writing during the final months before the 11+ . We found lots of very helpful tutorials on you tube and lots of examples on line.

Make sure you have a plan B (a local comp that you are in catchment of) and don't make her feel like she is missing out on something if she doesn't get into a grammar. It's a lot of pressure for a 10 year old, so big up your local comp even if it isn't the school you would wish for her.

Good luck, I've been through the 11+ process twice with my two DD's and I know how stressful it can be! But lots can be achieved in 3 months if identifying and targeting weak areas and working hard.

An average of 50%, but what was the range? How much weight is given to each section, particularly her weakest?
You say she's bright, but an average child can be at the top of a below-average class, just as an able child can be at the bottom of a super-able class- it's all relative.
As you've moved three times recently, does she have any CATs scores from joining a new school at all? Would give you a more sound idea of her abilities.

Every area has different 11+ tests, so you may need to say which you're aiming for in order for posters to advise better.
There's also the 11+ forum which, whilst being a hotbed of neurosis and angst also has an amazing amount of information and support on it.

Thanks for the replies, we are in Buckinghamshire. She got English (54%), verbal (66%), non verbal (40%), maths (40%). The maths part she didn’t answer 12 questions out of 40 as ran out of time so there is definitely scope to improve there as her maths is usually good. I’m not sure on CAT scores, at parents evenings we have been told she is working above her age in the core areas but not any particular grades/numbers.

Blimey, it's going to be tough.
How much time have you got to put into this ?
I have put 2 through the 11+ (Kent test).
She needs to be doing 1.5 hours every weekday until schools finish (3 hours one day of the weekend) then minimum 3 hours a day through the holidays with a day off each week.
To be honest you both need to really want it.
A thought is employing a 16 year old who has just completed their GCSEs to sit with her if you haven't got the time yourself....

Timing has a large impact on their score, and improving her timing can be doable. The CGP books are good- they have ten minute test books that helped my youngest improve his speed. However, I would say that he could already answer the questions, given enough time- if she is going to have to learn a lot of topics to manage, then I think you'd be putting too much pressure on her.

I'm sorry, I don't know what test Buckinghamshire use, but that can be found on 11+ site, and CGP do books for each type, just order the ones you need.

From personal experience, this is doable provided she is responsive to you. The internet is full of free material and there are some websites she can use for practice for fairly moderate prices. If the exams are in September and she’s this far behind, I would also ignore speed until maybe next month and focus solely on accuracy for the next few weeks. Focus on her weaker areas. In Maths, make sure she masters the times table. NVR is a tricky one. Once you ‘get it’ timing becomes less of an issue so the more practice the better. Plus lots of reading. This specifically is helpful whether she does the 11+ or not. PM if you want.

Have you tried these people - they do a sort of summer school
www.beaconsfieldschool.co.uk/ one to
One tuition.
Speed is important and you need to teach her shortcuts. (Google it).
When I was doing my boys, I did the papers first, worked out how to do them quickly and then taught them.
With comprehension, make sure she understands all the grammatical terms, and get her to underline important dates and names in the passage. Both my boys struggled with the emotive aspect, so I taught them to extract the important adjectives associated with the phrase they were looking at and it helped them to understand the context of the text more easily. Basically, do it yourself first and then teach it,

The eleven plus forum is a useful, if a trifle intense, resource. It will have a Bucks section, which will give a lot of area specific support.

My son did bucks several years ago. We were late to the party and he had 2 months intensive work in verbal and non verbal reasoning. Bucks was only verbal and Berks was both. Are you sure you need everything and not just verbal for bucks? Anyway. Join the 11 plus forum. It’s brilliant. He got in easily once he understood how to answer the questions.

I'd be tempted to go for it but speak to the school first. They will have had dozens of pupils go to the grammars over the years and should have an idea of whether your DD is capable of the standard required even if the number of moves mean some of her basics are erratic. A conversation should also give you an idea of whether they will support you in an appeal. By this I mean that, if your DD doesn't meet the magic 121 mark on the day, but is a few marks off then your school has to support your appeal/request for consideration. They may be prepared to support your DD even if she gets a lower mark than some other DC due to the circumstances.
I'd also look into summer 11+ crammers. I'm sure there will be some availability.
Another consideration is whether 11+ exams definitely going ahead in September? This year is playing out very differently to last but the 11+ exam was delayed several weeks in 2020. That could buy your DD valuable time!
Alternatively, if your non-grammar is good, then your DD will still get a chance to excel and could consider moving at 13+ instead as most of the grammars take another bunch then too.

@m00rfarm state bucks is basically VR, NVR, maths and comprehension.
@Whoateallthechocolate state schools in bucks grbetally won’t say unfortunately.

Thank you all so much for your replies, it’s been really really helpful.

Atom Learning. All online with live lessons and recorded lessons. It’s £60 per month but that’s cheaper than a tutor, and there is time between now and the exam to catch up on weak areas.

Op Dts are pulling in similar scores, we're
Not going for it BUT we have decent back ups as the grammars are over the county border. If we didn't I'd put everything into getting them through might send me crazy though

We did the Bucks 11+ in 2019 and didn’t formally tutor. A bright child doesn’t need formal tuition to pass (and the comments above about 1.5 hours a day are just bonkers) BUT they do need preparation.

Key things are familiarisation with the types of question, exam technique (eliminating all the incorrect answers and taking a guess with the remaining ones if needed, missing out a question and going back to it if time etc.). Timing is super important too. You are better off finishing the whole paper with a few guesses than getting bogged down and not answering the last ten questions.

We used the CGP GL books that have a “how to” section and then used the 10 minute tests. We deliberately kept it light and she was happy to do it. As a guide she was averaging 80-85% on the 10 minute tests in the two weeks before the exam.

I have two at grammar school, so I know how stressful this is! Mine are at a super selective, and we booked them in at explore learning, which is in our local supermarket. Theyhave a dedicated 11+ session and we found it really helpful, and it's cheaper than a tutor. They did about a year each, once a week. Mine listened and learned better with an outside influence rather than me trying to tutor them.

I have used test teach tuition and they have started doing papers since lockdown that they post out nationally which is cheaper than in person. Good luck to you anc your daughter

1.5 hours is only a paper and time spent going through it afterwards. The other thing they need to learn is how to concentrate for a decent stint. Unfortunately the 10 minite tests won't do that.

This is Kent where the test itself is 2.5 or 3 hours. I have many 1st generation colleagues from South Asia (India, Sri Lanka) they wouldn't think anything of a child doing an hour or so a night.

Neither would they accept their children weren't up to it. Just a different view.

I’m sure children are “up to it” if forced into it by their parents. Whether that makes for a healthy approach as to how childhood should be spent is an entirely different matter.

Of course they need to do some full length papers too, but little and often has been proven to be a far more efficient way of learning. So many children are burnt out and miserable as a result of tutoring just to pass an exam. One parent at our school tutored intensively from Year 4. Three hours a day, six days a week through the summer holidays between years 5 and 6 and their DC failed the exam. They then went on to blame the stress their DC was under...........

It is more than possible to prepare a bright child for the Bucks 11+ within three months without bonkers tutoring as it’s a full grammar county (more places available as a result). Exam technique and timing are absolutely key. Those elements CAN be taught. Intensive tutoring to get a child for whom a grammar might not be the right place through an exam can be a fruitless exercise and a miserable experience for the child.

So to go back to the OPs question, it sounds like her daughter is bright but missing some familiarity with the types of VR and NVR questions which can be done in three months. Poor technique meant losing marks on the maths section. I personally would focus on identifying the types of VR questions she has the most problems with, increase the NVR as it does look like there could be a weakness there, and just concentrate on exam technique and timing. Little and often.

Sorry but in what world is 90minutes a day not "little and often" ? Also OP has missed the "20 minutes a day from yr 3" boat here, which BTW I agree is probrably more effective. It is what it is they have 3 months to effectively raise the DCs scores by 30%. Softly, softly won't cut it.

Softly softly will cut it in Bucks, it's really not necessary to do years of intensive work. 30% of children score 121+ in the tests. Admittedly coming late to it may require a bit more intensive work but generally children in Bucks do about an hour a week during year 5, I would say, with maybe the odd 10 minute test thrown in. The main thing is making sure they are familary with the types of questions.

Well OP I'd say you've had a range of views. Up to you what you do now.
Good luck, best thing I ever did getting DS into his SS grammar it has paid off 300%.

Sorry, but if your children need 20 minutes a day from Y3 they shouldn't be going to a grammar school. My eldest had children in her primary class self harming from Y4 because of the pressure for exams their parents were putting them under.
OP has time to teach technique and timing, without the need for 90m a day. A child that will manage the pace at grammar can be ready in three months easily, particularly as most of that time is summer holidays.

Well OP I'd say you've had a range of views. Up to you what you do now.
Good luck, best thing I ever did getting DS into his SS grammar it has paid off 300%.

Bucks schools are not superselective.

OP - agree that the elevenplus website is brilliant, but if the basics are there, it really is just a question of speed.

Your DD needs to be doing timed tests - start with the Bond / CGP 10 minute tests. As a pp says, its really important that your DD learns to move on from a tricky question (my DD did a mock and got stuck on question 2 of 15 on a maths section - got it right but ran out of time so got 2/15 - whereas if she'd missed it out (or guessed), she'd have been able to answer the other 13 (easier!) questions and probably got 11/15 or 12/15).

Sit with her whilst she does them to start with - see where she's losing time, if you have the results of the mock paper go through the questions again. Work on elimination of obviously wrong answers and having the confidence to guess (its a new mindset when they're so keen to get everything right usually).

Good luck!