50% in 11+ practice... 3 months to go, what to do?

[CherryLeaf]

Hi all, I’d really like your advice on what we should do next.
We’re a military family, moved recently into a grammar school area. Dd currently finishing yr 5 so will take 11+ in Sept.
Dd is bright, always been ahead in her classes in English and Maths despite numerous military moves (3 schools in last 3 years!). We are finally stopping here and I’d love to give her the chance to go to grammar school as I think she would excel there. We have the study books and have been working through for last 2 months but it’s a mammoth task! No tutoring available as all full. Local tutor was able to offer practice test, which she did and got average 50% over the 4 areas. It seems 75-85% is needed generally. I don’t know if I should help her try to get there, or if the gap is too big now. I’ve asked her what she would like and she’s not sure. I’m unsure if she knows much about what the difference would be in her life, and honestly I don’t know either. I just know she’s bright and feel she is just unfamiliar with this style of test/questions.
If you were in my shoes what would you do next? Thanks

90 mins a day and 3 hrs at the weekend is excessive, not "little" and often.

If your child needs to spend that much time working in order to pass the 11+ I would gently suggest that grammar school might not be the right place for them.

@Nonamenoclue

Softly softly will cut it in Bucks, it's really not necessary to do years of intensive work. 30% of children score 121+ in the tests. Admittedly coming late to it may require a bit more intensive work but generally children in Bucks do about an hour a week during year 5, I would say, with maybe the odd 10 minute test thrown in. The main thing is making sure they are familary with the types of questions.

I have 2 at Bucks grammars and this is our experience too. An hour a week with a tutor in yr5, with a couple of pages as homework.

With a few months to go, a few hours a week should be ok with perhaps either a few intensive days with a tutor/11+ company in the summer holidays, or some practice papers with a tutor in the holidays.

As has already been said, Bucks is not like other 11+ counties, 1/3 of children that take the test get a grammar place so it's not anything like the super selective areas.

You do need to look at what your plan B is though as there are almost no comprehensives in Bucks and those that there are have tiny catchment areas. All depends on where you live what your alternatives will be. Some of the secondary moderns (which is what the vast majority of non grammars are) are good/ok but some are really not good at all.

Echoing what other posters have said... be sure your child is up for the challenge, then start work now. CGP then move into atom for timed tests etc. This is what we did, and it worked. However, be realistic. A starting level of 40% in say maths may be too tough (our starting level was v high ...not braying here, just giving perspective...). That said, bucks sounds less intense so it may all be possible. Basically you just need to make sure the whole syllabus is covered (use cgp) and once it is, start working to time (in your timetable of 3 months, a month before the exams, say).

*90 mins a day and 3 hrs at the weekend is excessive, not "little" and often.

If your child needs to spend that much time working in order to pass the 11+ I would gently suggest that grammar school might not be the right place for them*

I'm sorry but this is bollocks and symptomatic of a more generalised poverty of ambition in the UK education system.

Read Matthew's Syed's Bounce he is good at busting the "natural talent" myth.

DS and DD did the work outlined above. DS has absolutely thrived in his school where expectations are high. He hasn't struggled at all (hard work is expected and embraced). Such low ambitions and expectations for our children does them a disservice.

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0007350546/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_8GZJ2V84T9M6PYCEB2M6?psc=1&_encoding=UTF8&tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Lovely yep thanks everyone for your help, think we’ve got our plan now. I’ll teach her all of the techniques that you’ve mentioned and get some of the 10 mins tests. We’ll continue to do some each day, with regular mini tests per section. We can try to do what is possible with our time and keep everything crossed for a successful outcome on the day. Thanks all

Hi ...
You can try these past papers of maths...they uploaded upto 50 papers with solution
www.toplevels.co.uk/11-mathematics-past-exam-papers/

The Susan Doughtrey VR books were the best for Bucks tests when DD did them. Pre NVR, English and Maths days!

Bucks is not super selective but it is not just Bucks children who take the tests. So you cannot go to a Bucks Primary and think 33% of DC will get 121 plus. In many schools that simply is not the case. Substantial numbers of out of county children take it. Years ago, one area of Bucks had a pass rate of 16%. Some schools just get one or two going to a grammar. It’s a very uneven distribution.

Military DC get PP funding. What help is the school giving her? Where does she need to fill gaps? They will not help with 11 plus but they can try and plug gaps in learning.

Try and find a summer course to help with technique. Read lots. Do a bit of technique every night and familiarise her with the style of questions. I think she is late to start cramming now and its awful for lots of dc. Awful behaviour traits appeared in several dc in my village as a result of angst and cramming.

Also be aware that Bucks has some secondary modern schools with well over 30% high achievers. That’s significantly more than many comprehensive schools. The dc at these schools are not lost causes. If dc is not working at the speed or accuracy needed for the grammar, most of the alternative schools are far from awful.

Bucks is relatively easy to get in to grammar schools. Not as easy as Kent, but the top quarter of a class will pass. My dds both did just 1 hour a week tutoring from January of year 5, and both passed. I disagree completely with too much tutoring, poor kid will then struggle every day for years if they get in. If it's the first past paper, 50% is fine; it'll go up quickly. And, if it doesn't, grammar school might not be the right choice.

Top 25% at some schools do not go to the grammars. Maybe in the leafy lane Bucks schools but certainly not every school! Please don’t tell the op it’s 25% in every school - it absolutely is not.

It's true, the pass rates by school are available on the Buckinghamshire Council website and it varies widely by school & area. However scare stories about out of county applicants having much higher pass rates are just that. In Bucks it is an opt out test - everyone is entered unless they opt out. Those out of county are choosing to sit the test so must consider that they are likely to pass.

Recommended materials for the Bucks test can be found about halfway down this page
www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/schools/regions/buckinghamshire-11-plus

Quite - not only is distribution uneven across primary schools, but you need to factor in private schools too, which contribute a disproportionate number of passes. Our local SS grammar takes nearly 25% of its intake from preps.

I'm a specialist 11+ tutor. I don't have any space for new students, but I'll happily work out a study timetable for the summer and point you to lots of practice materials if that would help.

Some really good advice on here so I won't repeat all of it, but we did DIY prep for Bucks 11+ which we had intended to start at Christmas but didn't really get going until Easter of y5, and we did nothing like 90 minutes per day. More like an hour a week. A few things that worked for us:
10-minute tests in the early days. We used CGP books, as they had explanations as well as answers at the back, whereas the Bond ones only had lists of answers. At first the marks were very mixed, sometimes 8/10 and other times 3/10, depending on the question types, so try not to panic!
There were some NVR question types that DC never got to grips with (3D spatial stuff), so we didn't spend hours on those, but DC learned to spot the types and have a guess and move on, or come back to them at the end.
We did one mock exam (Susan Daughtrey), but I see you've already done a practice test. Might be worth revisiting once you have done a bit more preparation, to see if you're going in the right direction? We found it really useful for detailed feedback on the marks, as well as exam practice for DC.
Over the summer we did some practice papers from GL (who set the exam for Bucks), to work on timing and also for more familiarity with the format - where to do rough working, how to mark the machine-readable answer papers, how to flag questions to come back to later, etc. GL have some free downloadable materials on their website too.
Oh, and bribery. DC was not always a keen student. We offered £1 per point in the exam, so it wasn't a 'prize' for a qualifying score (which we were not completely confident DC would get), but an incentive to do their best and get as many marks as possible.

Haven’t read all the posts, but have you checked the entrance criteria for the schools? In the area I am, children who have lived in a different country for a long time can apply under special provisions- my daughter was awarded a place based on CAT score.

@MissM2912

Haven’t read all the posts, but have you checked the entrance criteria for the schools? In the area I am, children who have lived in a different country for a long time can apply under special provisions- my daughter was awarded a place based on CAT score.

That is not the case in Buckinghamshire.

Bucks is so clear about entry tests I despair that other “advice” is posted.

Of course the prep schools enter candidates but they don’t flood out the grammars. I doubt its anywhere near 25%. Yes out of county is opt in and some schools have a considerable number of these children. Mid and north Bucks in particular. The pass mark is the same for all.

Sorry Percy, I wasn't purporting to give any specific advice about Bucks (I'm not in Bucks), just noting the high percentage of prep school kids at our local grammar, to illustrate the point another poster made that distribution of 11+ passes/scores is not necessarily consistent across all schools. Apologies if that was misleading.

@walnutwhipple
It wasn’t your post. It was the CAT score comment. I am sure other areas do have a high percentage of prep school dc in the grammars.

Some local tutoring schools can make their test quite hard. With 3 months ahead, a lot of things can happen. Try some test packs or subscribe some most test websites may help.

Thank you for your kind offers and advice, really helpful, I’ve been reading and learning lots. Just as an update we’ve found a course that she can do.. teacher led online and in person locally. We also been working together quite a bit on her tougher areas rather than chugging through page by page and things are already improving.
Fingers crossed it will be a balance of intensive enough without overdoing it! Will come back in October once we know her result🤞. Thanks all, you are all so lovely 😊

@idontlikealdi

Op Dts are pulling in similar scores, we're Not going for it BUT we have decent back ups as the grammars are over the county border. If we didn't I'd put everything into getting them through might send me crazy though

I use it and found it helpful in getting DD familiar with the style of the test. Some parents believe its customised practice function is able to drill the skills against different Learning Outcomes.

Presenting I wasn’t referring to out of ‘County’ but out of ‘Country’ which is quite different and is on the admissions criteria for the grammar schools in Northern Ireland on the basis that children who have been educated elsewhere are at a disadvantage to local children. There was no need to be so rude as I would have thought this was a perfectly reasonable thing for grammar schools elsewhere to offer too- particularly for the likes of forces families who may have been abroad.

Be really careful on 11+ forum some of incredible people are blighted by posters who sit there waiting to pounce and question and why don't you stick with your local etc

Op my dd didn't get tutored and just scraped over the line.
We looked up nvr on u tube lots of Asian helpful videos, dh helped her through some 11+ maths books, and we looked up and spoke about exam technique

She was already outstanding in English so maths and nvr needed some work
In total about four hours we did in short bursts.
So don't panic, but this was get over the 121 line.. Not anything higher if it was we would have prepared far more