Are top private schools getting fewer oxbridge offers?

[Ijustwanttoask]

Just read in the papers about the drop in Oxbridge offers to Eton in the last few years. Is there a same trend for other big name public schools and top London day schools too?

In the past years, these schools generally happily announce the numbers of Oxbridge offers they get around this time of the year but I haven't seen much for 2021.

* Title edited by MNHQ by request* **

@IrmaFayLear

I don’t think Oxbridge is right for someone who wants “a bustling city, clubs and the independence of making her own food”

Oxbridge is right for someone who is highly academic, is prepared - nay, enjoys - working like a Trojan and appreciates the atmosphere of learning and the company of like-minded souls.

My dcs are comprehensive all the way and they got in. Their primary focus was their subject, not to have a Love Island experience.

Not sure I agree. Yes 100% to working like a Trojan and loving the atmosphere of learning etc. But you can still cook your own food if you choose to live out after Yr1. Even last term, DS was doing stir fries every lunchtime in his tiny corridor kitchen. And maybe it has changed but I went clubbing every week at Oxford. Loved the music scene there. DS is really hoping that will come back once lockdown is over.

Quite, Zanda. Yet some on this thread would contend it's a level playing field. For what it's worth, my DD is a current Oxford offer holder, and in spite of technically qualifying for contextual offers due to her very average comp and living in one of the more deprived quintiles (ie in, not merely with a view of a council estate from the back window), it's the same offer held by applicants from our most exclusive public schools. If she gets B grades, she'll be looking for a place elsewhere.

I don’t think Oxbridge is right for someone who wants “a bustling city, clubs and the independence of making her own food”

I think you are right, Oxford at least is a fairly dull city (lived there for a while unfortunately) and if you are highly academic and capable of the independence then going there is beneath your capabilities. I can't comment on Cambridge, it's not a city I'm familiar with.

Oxbridge is right for someone who is highly academic, is prepared - nay, enjoys - working like a Trojan and appreciates the atmosphere of learning and the company of like-minded souls.

I'm sure it is beneficial for those who can't manage to prepare their own food and study at the same time as living in a bustling city, however there are many highly academic students who can and do appreciate the atmosphere of learning with like-minded souls without looking down on students at other well regarded universities.

@DahliaMacNamara and @Zandathepanda yep. My DS too. No contextual offer (mind you none needed!).
I'm watching another thread at the moment which has morphed into a similar area as this and am astonished too at the posters who say oh yes private schools are so diverse/all those bursaries/ all those BAME families. I honestly think k these people have not the foggiest how the majority of kids are educated in their country. And it's not the schools fault. It's funding, it's deprivation. It's so much more. And my kids saw that true diversity at such close hand every day. They were lucky too that thanks to us and our connections they also mixed with kids who'd been to independent day schools. So they weren't shocked when they got to Durham and Cambridge respectively.

Irma that made me laugh! I don’t think she’s ever watched Love Island. I have seen adverts - I can’t imagine it’s her thing. She is working like a Trojan though, getting a first currently and doing paid research for the university. If she could, she would like to have let her hair down every so often by shopping/clubbing/going to the seaside etc but covid has put a stop to that. She had a pretty dire few teenage years beforehand that focused her mind on what she wanted out of life. Which was not to go to Oxbridge for the sake of it, just because of her high IQ and grades. You could argue that her experiences make her a more rounded individual. She’s now back at our semi-rural home miles from all those things again.

As I said before, the course she is doing wasn’t available at Oxbridge. She could have compromised and done something similar, but she didn’t want to. Dare I say the course and place looked a bit boring? You can be bright, academic and also want to have fun.

@ClarasZoo

There are lots of inequalities that I am only just beginning to fully understand, as my children are now year 12 and 13. They have a background of both state and private, before I get flamed. One child private, one state.

1. Private schools pick the easier exams. There is no doubt that getting a 9 at GCSE is harder than getting an A* at IGCSE.
2. Friend's child at private school has been told she can keep sitting mocks till she evidences the A level grade she needs for her university choice.
3. Private schools gave higher CAGs last year and probably will this year.
4. For medicine universities look at GCSE grades to allocate interviews - there is a bias to the private school pupils who sat easier exams and got A*s.
5. Oxbridge contextualise so state school pupils get in much easier with the same A level profile.
6. Some other universities hand out easier offers to state educated sixth formers if their school is on their lists.
7. If you have a bright child at sixth form and they want to go to Oxbridge it is a disadvantage to keep them or put them in private school.

100% agree with some of these points.

The disparity between GCSEs in state and private schools is a scandal IMO - the IGCSEs are far less challenging. It's an outrage that the IGCSEs even exist.

My eldest is at Cambridge and my younger one is in y11 at present. State school (both). We live in a part of London which has good states, luckily. I know lots of people with kids at 'top' private schools paying for several tutors, extra tuition etc. How ridiculous. I wouldn't pay for private. The teaching in general is poorer.

Seriously? Is that true about IGCSEs? A dear friend whose child went to the local girls school swore blind that IGCSE maths was 'much more challenging than GCSE.'
I must admit I smelled a rat when the serial failers of GCSE English at DC's school were finally entered for IGCSE in order for them to be allowed to move on.

I wouldn't pay for private. The teaching in general is poorer.

errrr….what? How can you possibly say that?

Caravaggio can I ask were / are they at grammar or comprehensive?

@scentedgeranium

Seriously? Is that true about IGCSEs? A dear friend whose child went to the local girls school swore blind that IGCSE maths was 'much more challenging than GCSE.' I must admit I smelled a rat when the serial failers of GCSE English at DC's school were finally entered for IGCSE in order for them to be allowed to move on.

The IGCSEs were harder than the old GCSEs BUT they are certainly easier than the reformed GCSEs. It’s not a level playing field and not fair. Our local private school still tells the parents that the IGCSEs are more rigorous but they really are not. Some still have 40% coursework.

So if IGCSE's are easier, aren't private school pupils at a disadvantage by taking lesser exams? Are the A levels different too?

IGCSES being easier is a Mumsnet myth bandied about by people who have not taken them. They were very much like the modified gcses which is why private schools are now switching back. Some were chosen because they still had proper practical elements for the sciences and were thus considered better preparation for A levels.

Oxford does not give contextual offers but does contextualize all their scoring when deciding who to make offers to. Yes the offer holder has to make the grade but 7 -11 gcses x 9/8 at a school where only 10% students gets those grades scores higher than the same grades where a school gets 75% at those grades. Interviews, submitted work and some aptitude tests are also contextualized in the same way. It is a different method of applying contextualisation to even things up.

A-levels are the same everywhere

can I ask were / are they at grammar or comprehensive?

Put simply (as I am simple), there was a system in which children took a test in their final year at primary school, in year 6 (10 - 11). This was/is supposed to test whether they would do better in a more academic school ( a grammar school), or not. Those who failed went to a Secondary Modern school.

This testing was abolished in most Counties, and children went to Comprehensive schools, the clue is in the name. However, some Counties hung onto the concept of selection and still keep the regime, although they tend not to call the school for failures Secondary Modern.
Interestingly, most of these changes were introduced by Margaret Thatcher, herself a product of the selective education system.

My children sat new style GCSEs and IGCSEs so I feel safe in my statement that IGCSEs are easier!

@ClarasZoo

My children sat new style GCSEs and IGCSEs so I feel safe in my statement that IGCSEs are easier!

As have my 3 and I have come to the opposite conclusion. I guess it must be down to which boards they took too.

Well as someone who actually teaches both, I can confidently assert that IGCSEs are most definitely easier. There is less unseen material in the Eng Lang exam, the poetry unseen is less difficult (one poem instead of two), the coursework option remains in place ( which can be redrafted, rewritten etc ). I could provide further specifics but I really don't need to.

@Ifailed

can I ask were / are they at grammar or comprehensive?

Put simply (as I am simple), there was a system in which children took a test in their final year at primary school, in year 6 (10 - 11). This was/is supposed to test whether they would do better in a more academic school ( a grammar school), or not. Those who failed went to a Secondary Modern school.

This testing was abolished in most Counties, and children went to Comprehensive schools, the clue is in the name. However, some Counties hung onto the concept of selection and still keep the regime, although they tend not to call the school for failures Secondary Modern.
Interestingly, most of these changes were introduced by Margaret Thatcher, herself a product of the selective education system.

It was more a question to pp on which good state. It was interesting post though

@ClarasZoo

My children sat new style GCSEs and IGCSEs so I feel safe in my statement that IGCSEs are easier!

Of course IGCSEs are easier. There are no pre-release booklets in the 'ordinary' GCSE. There used to be but not any more. They remain in place for IGCSE though. This means you can revise from your booklet all year and then get asked questions about it. The ordinary style new 1 - 9 'spec GCSEs ALL have nothing but unseen material. I wonder which is easier .As a teacher working in several schools I see first hand the absolute injustice of this.

I wouldn't pay for private. The teaching in general is poorer.

I would say "often" rather than "in general", but otherwise agree.

I'm a governor at a state comprehensive. Almost every year get NQTs through the door who have good academic credentials on paper, but no aptitude for teaching, and when they are managed out they often get snapped up by private schools, who put their academic credentials on their website then sit back and rest on their laurels. We also get a lot of 'experienced' private school teachers applying for jobs, and they are usually terrible at interview.

People really shouldn't generalise. There are poor state schools and poor independent schools throughout the country.

However, statistically, private schools overall produce better results than state schools at secondary level after controlling for ability and social background.

If you can afford private, looking at your specific state and private options is critical though as a specific private school won't always be better than your local state option.

Given your name SouthLondonMommy I wonder if you know the schools I mean well. You sound knowledgeable on this

The schools being in SE London that is

I wouldn't pay for private. The teaching in general is poorer

Gosh, well if the teaching is so poor then those private school students must have so much more potential than their terrible results suggest! Perhaps they need contextual offers to compensate for the obvious disparity in teaching...

I see Mumsnet has sunk to its usual mud-slinging lows for any education thread. FFS.

@OnlyTeaForMe Sorry to keep asking but could you PM me the name of that SE 6th form college that does so well? Thanks.