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Original poster

calling frogs or any other experts on schools in london - getting into pushy selective private school 7+ entry

107 replies

bossykate · 11/10/2007 13:37

...thinking of moving ds from his high-performing state school to private. the nearest options for us are the dulwich foundation schools, which are of course very selective. what if any preparation would be necessary to ensure he has a decent chance of getting in? i don't want to go down the tutoring route but bet other parents will have no such scruples, not to mention the applicants that will be coming from pre-prep

please help!

OP posts:
frogs · 15/10/2007 17:54

bk -- that reading thing sounds moronic.

Dd1 at her very non-pushy primary school had her own box of books in Y1, containing Mr Majeika, Roald Dahl & co. By the end of the year she was sharing it with a couple of other kids. And this was in a class where approximately half the children failed to reach the benchmark SATS levels.

I can see absolutely no justification whatsoever for making a child plough through endless ORT books way below their reading ability. There can't be many surer ways of making a child hate reading, and hate school for that matter. It will also undermine the teacher's credibility, as even a 6yo can see that what they are being asked to do is patently stupid and pointless.

Grrr.

Original poster
bossykate · 15/10/2007 17:56

i think it's part of that whole "teach to the sats ethos"

OP posts:
TellusMater · 15/10/2007 17:57

Indeed. The difference between 'high-performing' and 'good'. Not the same thing at all.

Cammelia · 15/10/2007 17:57

I think you're right

frogs · 15/10/2007 18:02

But if he can read proper books, what's the point of forcing him to read Biff & Chip Level 6? How does that help his SATS results?

There's no justification for this -- you'll end up with a grumpy, disaffected 9yo who thinks school is a waste of time and teachers are not interested in him. And he will have a point.

This is exactly where we were with dd1, and it was not pretty.

Cammelia · 15/10/2007 18:04

The teaching to the Sats thing means that those who are easily at the "correct" sats level will get ignored

LadyMuck · 15/10/2007 18:07

Ds1 is on the ORT Treetop True Stories which covers stages 10-14.

ORT 6 doesn't sound right. Ds1 was on ORT 10 partway through Year 1 and he isn't the best reader in his class (though equally is far from the worst).

Out of interest when are the children becoming free readers (ie after what ORT stage?) ORT goes up to Level 16 and I would have thought that some of the subjects are a little too "grown-up" for a 5/6 yo. I was less than impressed to have to deal with artificial insemination and c/sections for one nights read. Last night was apartheid which still seemed a bit odd for a "reading book" (though weird pointing out to ds1 that I remember the Mandela 70th birthday concert at Wembly - can't believe that ds is reading about events in which I have participated!).

Original poster
bossykate · 15/10/2007 18:08

yup, cammelia, that's what i fear, as i said it's all about how the school does not about how ds is doing...

OP posts:
Original poster
bossykate · 15/10/2007 18:10

maybe he is a dunce and i'm just the archetypal pushy parent...

OP posts:
Cammelia · 15/10/2007 18:10

Don't even go there bk

frogs · 15/10/2007 18:11

Yes, clearly that's the problem, but why can't they leave him in a corner to read interesting books by himself? Or set him projects to research in the school library? There are lots of solutions to this situation that needn't be hugely time-consuming, but require a modicum of imagination and goodwill.

Which is sadly a rarer commodity than it should be.

frogs · 15/10/2007 18:12

Arf, bk, crossed posts!

I mean the problem is that they're not interested in the kids who will reach Level 4 or 5 with both hands tied behind their backs.

LadyMuck · 15/10/2007 18:13

Bk, I suspect that it means that you are right to be thinking about the route that you are thinking of.

Judy1234 · 15/10/2007 19:50

One reason to pass a 7+ and get out of the state system is you avoid SATs and all that stuff.It's stretching children at the upper end in private primaries which can be worth paying for.

I can't remember when ours started free reading. The twins have that now and are 8 - year 4. I think that started in year 3, not 2 and depended on the child and its abilities.

olala · 15/10/2007 21:10

frogs are you talking abotu children doing their KS1 SATS and reaching levels 4 and 5 with hands tied behind backs?

frogs · 15/10/2007 22:13

No no, KS2. Even the most pushy schools don't get that hung up about KS1 sats now that they're not compulsory. In fact I have a working theory that schools are deliberately understating children's KS1 results in order to make their value-added figures look better. This was certainly going on in my dc's previous school -- kids who were fluently reading the complete works of Harry Potter only getting Level 2 for reading, that kind of thing.

The whole thing is so nonsensical it makes me scream. And yes, a valid and sensible argument for opting out of the system, if you have the chance.

janinlondon · 16/10/2007 10:07

BK any joy at the meeting this morning? Sorry I didn't see your post last night, but you are right - the reading is poorly judged and seems disorganized. In year 2 we had three different schemes for the children to work through, so three different sets of new vocabulary and names, and they read one book a night. If the reading wasn't done, parents had to note in the reading homework book why it wasn't. Difficult words had to be noted. Homework books were checked every day. Children read to the reading assistant (teacher in training) or teacher at least three times a week - sometimes more often. Children's reading level was assessed individually every term. I don't know if this is helpful (probably not - probably too late!) but hope you had a productive meeting with the teacher.

Blu · 16/10/2007 10:15

BK - agree about the reading...DS has been really slow getting to grips with reading and he's on ORT 8 at school...some in his class are still on level 4, some read chapter books only, supplied by school. I have noticed that the target cards we get and the homework is 'graded' too, to individual levels. Though they never tell us who is in what group according to any 'hierarchy', but I know that DS is on the top level of maths targets, iyswim.

starfish2 · 16/10/2007 10:56

I have just glanced through some of the messages in this thread and I am in complete panic. Dd is 2.4 and I have loads of people asking about which school I am 'sending her to'. All my early education was not in the UK and I have no idea about the schooling system here... I will need a crash course on it.
I always went to 'outstanding' private schools and was thinking of sending dd to one too, but I had no idea this is such a potential nightmare. And I live close to Dulwich (or the 'mad corner' of London).
AAARRRGGGHHH!!! Am in panic.

janinlondon · 16/10/2007 11:13

Starfish don't panic! You are close to a selection of some of the best schools you could hope for. And you have plenty of time to choose carefully. You are in a GREAT position!!!

starfish2 · 16/10/2007 11:24

janinlondon, what completely makes me freak out is the competitiveness of the whole thing. They are children, fhs! I also read about the cliques of mothers at the schoolgates and I am not sure I can survive that type of thing...

janinlondon · 16/10/2007 11:47

Starfish - depends which school you look at. There are some, certainly, where the selection procedure seems to judge the social status of the parents as much or more than the potential of the child. Then there are others where the school looks for that potential in the child, and doesn't give a toss about what you drive or where you actually live. Our school is of the latter type. After visiting, I think, ALL the candidate schools, we realized that this is what we want for our child. Though we probably wouldn't have passed muster at the ones where they interview the parents first! But the choice is yours in the first instance (though obviously after that the choice is theirs!!).

mwamwa · 16/10/2007 12:10

I too want the best but I have a non accademic boy in the middle of Wandsworth. Sinking in a class of 30 aged 8 hence wanting to move to private. Dulwich schools are wonderful but there is not a HIH of getting him in there. Where do lovely little boys like this go?

janinlondon · 16/10/2007 12:17

Mwama, when you say "non academic", exactly how non-academic? I am presuming you mean not DC or Alleyns material? But might that be because he's invisible in a class of 30 and not inspired? Have you looked at the other Dulwich schools? (Grassy area with trees, flower followed by alcoholic honey based drink)? Spoken to any of them? They may surprise you. Why not have a look around at their open days?

mwamwa · 16/10/2007 12:50

Waiting for eureka moment in maths - hasn't a clue. Reads fine but gets distracted so easily and can't seem to focus with noise around him. Takes everything very slowly and peers are racing ahead which knocks his confidence hugely. Will investigate others, thankyou. You can see why cosy prep schools down the A3 suddenly look appealing.