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Original poster

Attempt to establish a secular school - article in Grauniad

156 replies

UnquietDad · 03/10/2007 10:42

This came up in the blasphemy thread but I think it deserves a discussion of its own.

here tis

Me, I'm quite happy for my children to go to school with the children of Jews, Christians, Muslims, Seventh-day Adventists, Apocalyptists, atheists, agnostics, don't-care-ists, Worshippers of the Great Spaghetti Monster and people who believe the Royal Family are lizards and we should all wear turquoise. But some of them don't want my child to go to school with theirs.

OP posts:
Gobbledispook · 03/10/2007 14:57

Oh God, a Man Utd school - heaven!!

Gobbledispook · 03/10/2007 14:58

QoQ - ds1 had to write something about church and he said 'it's good there, we have parties' becuase lots of kids use the church hall for parties

Cammelia · 03/10/2007 14:58

cc I would have thought it would have happened by now, though, if that's true

Original poster
UnquietDad · 03/10/2007 14:59

I suppose analogies are difficult - my football analogy always falls down, maybe, because you can "not like/not agree with" football while being unable to deny it actually exists.

If anyone can think of a better one (which doesn't involve leprechauns) I'd be happy to hear it.

OP posts:
wheresmysuntan · 03/10/2007 14:59

Agree with you UQD - why is it necessary for the child of religious parents ( note, I don't say religious child)to have a daily act of worship at school? Surely this can be done at home and at church. I just don't get it. I certainly don't get the argument that these people have such strong faith that it must be echoed in every aspect of daily life. Do they apply the same logic to out of school activities? Must they go to a Religious Ballet class? Do they only learn religious music? What about university - does that have to be faith based too?

Original poster
UnquietDad · 03/10/2007 14:59

Explain to me why I am confused. I don't feel in the least bit confused and I'd be delighted to have this trenchant insight into my psyche...

OP posts:
Cammelia · 03/10/2007 15:01

That's what the French system says wheresmysuntan but its easy for them having disposed of their Monarchs

Cammelia · 03/10/2007 15:02

No UQD I can't be bothered to respond to attitude

Original poster
UnquietDad · 03/10/2007 15:03

It was a genuine piece of puzzlement. People have disgreed with me on here, and I have disagreed with them, but I have done so entirely consistently.

OP posts:
Cammelia · 03/10/2007 15:04

True

Original poster
UnquietDad · 03/10/2007 15:05

wheresmysuntan - I am baffled by that too. I use the analogy of other services funded through local taxation - people don't expect these to be partly weighted in favour of faith. (Hospitals, dustbin collection, fire service..)

OP posts:
Anna8888 · 03/10/2007 15:07

In France, where state education is secular, the latest proposal being mooted is to introduce teaching about religion (not religious education) into the NC .

For what it's worth, as a non-christened Church of England non-believer from a non-practising family, I only understood how powerful the religious underlie of my education was when setting up home with a French secular Jew . We both of us are culturally religious in our own, very important, ways.

Anna8888 · 03/10/2007 15:09

I wasn't explicit enough in my previous post - I am extremely glad to have had a solid religious education at an English primary school. It has shaped me.

bossykate · 03/10/2007 15:10

has anyone on this thread said they disagree with the establishment of a "secular" school?

scampadoodle · 03/10/2007 15:10

UQD, as a fairly impartial contributor to this thread I do think you are being a tad disingenuous when you profess surprise at the offence other poster's have taken at your remarks. You really cannot compare belief in fairies etc with ancient belief systems which, like it or not, rightly or wrongly, have formed the basis of society and culture for thousands of years. I think it does your basic argument in the OP - which many people probably agree with - a disservice.

bossykate · 03/10/2007 15:11

nicely put scampadoodle. not to mention the offensive generalisations about all people of faith!

Cammelia · 03/10/2007 15:12

I don't think secular schools should be funded by the (non-secular) state though

Original poster
UnquietDad · 03/10/2007 15:13

Well, again, see my very first post for what I want.

Of course, there will be people who will inevitably hold up their hands and scream "secularisation gone mad" at my wish to school people in the state sector irrespective of their beliefs.

OP posts:
Anna8888 · 03/10/2007 15:13

Excellent post, Scampadoodle

Original poster
UnquietDad · 03/10/2007 15:14

scampadoodle - why not?

The fact that a belief system is "ancient" (Christianity is ony 2000 years old) doesn't make it any more "right".

OP posts:
Cammelia · 03/10/2007 15:14

Children are already schooled in the state sector irrespective of their beliefs

MrsDepp · 03/10/2007 15:15

Can i just chuck in a perspective from Northern Ireland here? Segregating kids' education by religion is a major factor in perpetuating mistrust and hatred.

Mainland UK, obviously, doesn't have quite the same problems, but faith schools still seem a pretty good way to store up trouble for the future.

Anna8888 · 03/10/2007 15:16

UQD - it's not a question of whether Christianity was right or not. The point is that it has shaped the Western world - indeed, it has been the greatest force in shaping Western society.

Cammelia · 03/10/2007 15:17

eg. the History of Art UQD

madamez · 03/10/2007 15:17

Scampadoodle: people have believed in fairies/pixies/ghosts for thousands of years. Many still do. And horoscopes.
I think they are neither more nor less dumb and gullible than people who believe in the pantheons of any established religions.
It's not longevity that makes one lot of bollocks 'truer' than another one, is it? I think it's more to do with political power myself.