Union say schools won't be fully open in September. Goverment say covid will be here till spring, so will schools fully open in spring 2021?

[947EliseChalotte]

Goverment say s hooks will be fully open in sept 2020 but unions are saying no they won't ! Goverment say covid we need to livewith covid and prepare for another wave, it's likely to be here till spring. So will schools reopen in spring 2021 when covid has gone?

Greylife
I wonder if unions were told that teachers won’t be paid if they don’t go to work (just like most who aren’t government employed are being told) they would change their tune.

I haven't seen a post by a teacher that said they won't go to work.
I have seen posts by teachers saying that they would like it to be as safe as possible.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay

Bubbles where introduced into schools as SD was deemed to be impossible for children at a young age (paraphrased).

So schools haven't chosen to ignore that part.

@saraclara none of the teachers I know would ever admit that either. But they will happily take any bit of vague wording in the guidelines, over zealous risk assessments, and the myriad complications, and use them as reason to limit capacity.

You're absolutely right that the DfE guidance is inadequate, because it's ambiguous. But whilst some schools are taking a "let's get more children in" approach, others are still taking an unnecessary "2m above all" position.

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay DfE guidance isn't clear enough. Classes should be split in half, up to 15 children with desks as far apart as possible. Nowwhere does it say desks have to be 2m apart.

Let people moan, it’s only adding to their disgruntled feelings if you tell them to use Oak. You know that is not what they want.

Weird, they often say ‘thanks, I’ll take a look’.

My DH wanted a haircut, he got me, some clippers and a youtube video. Most people accept that their wants aren’t necessarily going to be catered for exactly at the moment and are willing to make do.

Giraffe, I’m sorry, I don’t think your post was intended helpfully. It was intended to silence.

Yes, Iused because as I previously mentioned, this is not a thread with a concerned parent asking for help.

We are going around in circles and I’ve half forgotten my point (amidst, ironically, the misery of trying to prepare home learning!)

I genuinely feel we are in an awkward position trying to argue Oak/Bitesize are as good as / equivalent to what a child’s own teacher will produce. It may be ‘better than nothing’ but that’s a fairly low bar to set.

Where settings can keep children and young people in those small groups 2m away from each other, they should do so.

From part of the guidance. It probably would have helped if the DfE hadn’t released the guidance in a number of different documents and had just put it all in one place. Even if you know you’ve read it somewhere this stuff doesn’t seem to be easy to find.

I genuinely feel we are in an awkward position trying to argue Oak/Bitesize are as good as / equivalent to what a child’s own teacher will produce

But in the cases where the schools or teachers aren’t producing very much or unsuitable stuff (and that is true in some cases) then it’s very helpful.

I’m not saying always ignore your own school’s output in favour of Oak. Obviously what I produce is far superior....

@TuckMyWin

The biggest thing schools (and work places) can do to reduce the risk of transmission, and which will happily be a natural outcome of this, is to stop the pressure to send children in to school unwell, on the basis it's 'just a cold' and one day off school will make them fail their ofsted ruin little Jonny's chances of becoming a doctor forever more.

That is so true. Not a schools issue but it really doesn't help when so many people are hourly paid, and SSP is so low and only kicks in after 3 days. When people are low paid / crap safety net they'll drag themselves into work when really the place they should be is their beds.

@Greylife

I wonder if unions were told that teachers won’t be paid if they don’t go to work (just like most who aren’t government employed are being told) they would change their tune.

The unions are not telling teachers not to go to work. Teachers are not refusing to work.

What the unions are saying is that working conditions need to be safe. Which is the job of every union.

Get it right if you're going to post stuff that makes it clear you don't understand what the teaching unions stance is and you've made incorrect assumptions.

Define "safe"

The 2m rule has not been relaxed. Schools are still following the protective measures guidance which has not been changed.

You adhere to the 2 meters where every possible but in recognition that sometimes this is not possible. If children hug you in their excitement, it happens. The 2 meters applies to all school staff and work related visitors and even in the staff room.

Public Health guidance relates to health care settings and in all other settings individuals are asked to observe social distancing measures.
The LA social distancing capacity tool is used to determine the group size.

Clinically vulnerable children can go back if the 2 meters is being observed along with other requirements.

The RA is only relevant to that school and read alongsid at least 10 other risk assessment policies and LA/ DFE guidance.

Once we have new guidance about the 1 meter rule schools can assess what is doable using the Capacity tool and RA.

I don't think anyone has said that Oak Academy or Bitesize are as good as, or a proper substitute for classroom teaching tbh.

People have said that they're a stop gap, available free of charge to anyone with internet access or TV and may be something that parents who are concerned that the home learning sent home by their child's school isn't sufficient.

It appears most people can't balance risks. I would hope most teachers are educated and bright enough to realise the risk of covid now is extremely low, so the idea of not returning to normal in sept is beyond ridiculous. Unless the situation changes radically.

A few teachers will be higher risk, but hardly any objectively high risk, i.e. someone with a bit of asthma, Gallbladder issue, mild hypertension should not be shielding (examples I've come across to date).

Is it not more the case that teachers are so overworked and stressed that prolonging their time off reduces their burden to some extent? That is nothing to do with covid.

I am not scared to go to work as a front line doctor for inpatients most of whom have mental disorders and don't understand social distancing. Nothing in life is completely safe or 'Covid secure'

"time off"
Get to fuck

What has Gavin Williamson been doing for the last 3 months.? He's still faffing about 'consulting school leaders' and delaying. Schools need a plan now!

Ministers have no idea how state schools work. It's utterly ludicrous. Their children attend private school, nice cosy classes of 12 kids. The state system is ridiculously cramped, underfunded and strained to breaking point. It's the last straw for unions, after years of pay cuts and worsening working conditions and performance related pay toxic culture. That's why they kicked up a fuss now. To put up with all the above and then possibly not even be safe at work.

It's not an easy situation to solve but planning should have started weeks ago. Teachers want to start planning ahead for September now. How can they do that if it's not clear how many children they will be teaching, which room, and what the timetable will look like? That's the most basic stuff they need to know!

"time off"
Get to fuck

Quite.

I think it’s more likely they’ll scrap the 1m rule and cross their fingers, tbh.

Could do. Johnson’s second proclamation on schools being back.

Time off? As I have said on so many threads, every single member of staff where I work (teaching and other) is in school working their full hours. Just because loads of children are off, doesn't mean teachers are - if you more than halve class sizes (yes halve, my class has 34 children normally) then you need more than double the number of teachers. We've even employed two extra staff!

We were seeing 1/3 of our cohort in August, overnight that changed to 100%. Will that make more work for me? Not really. I would have been in full time teaching them either way. It's more work in terms of completing changing our planning, but going back to the "norm" is an easier option in terms of workload in the long run - it's just unfortunate there's a small matter of a virus doing the rounds.

Who has a classroom that's 45 to 50 square metres? So 6m by 9m. Really?

Mine is nowhere near that big - it's 6m by 6m, then with a 2.5m by 2.5m area taken away where the wall kicks in to make room for the cloakroom the opposite side of the wall. The kids normally sit in rows of tables pushed together.
With 2m distancing I can fit 7 tables in. With 1m I will be able to have 15.

All our classes are 30, with a few having 31 from appeals. And libraries are out due to soft furnishings.

Is it not more the case that teachers are so overworked and stressed that prolonging their time off reduces their burden to some extent? That is nothing to do with covid*

FFS how many more times. Teachers have not had "time off". It's so insulting to keep hearing that.

Yes as a front line doctor, you'd think OxfordMum1983 would be educated and bright enough to realise that teachers have been working throughout.