Union say schools won't be fully open in September. Goverment say covid will be here till spring, so will schools fully open in spring 2021?

[947EliseChalotte]

Goverment say s hooks will be fully open in sept 2020 but unions are saying no they won't ! Goverment say covid we need to livewith covid and prepare for another wave, it's likely to be here till spring. So will schools reopen in spring 2021 when covid has gone?

@LuluJakey1

DH is aHead of a secondary school and I was a teacher. I am so sick of the teacher unions and their ridiculous statements. We don't need double the number of teachers- and they only say that because they know it is impossible to make happen. Most classes have significantly fewer than 30 children - at secondary anyway. DS1s primary has fewer than 30 in a class- between 23 and 26. At secondary in most schools - not all- there are some very small groups of low ability children, of unpopular GCSE option subjects and at Post-16. Most schools - not all- have spaces they could use differently such as halls, drama studios, PE facilities. DH's school has 2 halls, a gym, an indoor football centre, an unused old library space (they had a new library), a large 6th form common room and 6 classrooms that have been used as department offices that could be changed back.

Another secondary school near us with falling numbers has more rooms unused than used.

If schools got rid of the crap they hoard they could clear a deal of extra space

Many teachers - particularly those with higher TLRs and school leaders have significant numbers of non-teaching periods and could teach a lot more than they do.

Other ideas:
Lengthen the day and have children on staggered starts and timetables.

Fewer school holidays with the time put to the same use- ensuring children are able to access school full-time.

Teachers unions have emerged from this as making teachers sound workshy and unwilling to do their job- which I know the majority certainly are not. However, I think lots more than the public are aware of have declared themselves unable to set foot in the school for one reason or another. It was going to cause huge issues- the the LA DH works in the numbers of teachers claiming they could not return for 'health reasons' was over 200. They will now have to return because shielding is being removed. The LA could not possibly have found that many teachers.

I bumped into one of DH's staff in Newcastle - a Head of a large dept. She told me - in the city centre where she was shopping- that she is shielding and has not been at work at all and it's been great. She has been walking the dog, been on a diet, has decorated two rooms, sorted out her house and hardly done any work. She has met friends every day to go for walks. I was

This is so far removed from the truth for any school here in London. Classes are 30 at least and there is no money to hoard stuff as we don't have any stuff. We also don't have spare rooms floating about. The classrooms are tiny also. The teachers with more responsibility have that time because of the increased workload- when would you like them to do that work if they have to teach more? Our SLT are already on their knees. Sorry but a lot of what you are saying is categorically wrong. To suggest what you are saying is true for the majority is incorrect.

@BillBaileysBum

Lulujakey THANK YOU.

Finally someone telling the truth.

It categorically is not the truth.

The stuff we hoard are books umm, we kind of need them!

It's likely that whatever the "science" the teaching unions will have us hamstrung and children, including those in need due to family life or disability, will continue to be failed.

@noblegiraffe

The union’s job is to think about the teachers. That’s literally what I pay my subs for.

Unfortunately that is not the only thing they think about.

Lulu appears to be extrapolating massively from a single school.

My school is also not overburdened with unused classrooms.

@margotsdevil

If you guys are confused spare a thought for your friends in the North...

Scotland is 3 weeks behind England in terms of releasing lockdown and today John Swinney did a u turn of unprecedented proportions to announce we are going back full time (so without distancing cause that's the only way they will fit in the school) in August. 3 weeks (maybe even 4?) before England, a full week earlier than normal for some councils, announced less than 24 hours before the holidays start in some areas.

I don't even know where to start in terms of prep now.

Margotsdevil teachers must be going round the twist.

I strongly suspect the U-turn was as a result of pressure from parents.
Take teachers for an example, many are parents too, how are they supposed to be in front of a class 4 days per week, while their children were only getting schooling 2 days per week - what was the plan for the kids the other two days? Oh that's right there wasn't one. Who was going to deliver online learning the other days? One teacher can't do both.
What families have been asked to do isn't sustainable, work from home, educate children and entertain preschoolers. Parents put up with it thinking it's only the summer term and some were furloughed anyway. But the thought of starting the new term not wanting education to slip, knowing furlough is coming to an end and no childcare is tear your hair out stuff.
The only decent thing is plans are in place if we do have a second wave and shut down.

I'm also a teacher and my school certainly isn't in the same position as LuluJakey's husband's. Of all my classes only 1 is less than 30 - it's 28 and I have several that are 32/33 (for one class we have to borrow an exam table and chair so everyone has a seat). We also only have 1 hall, which is used for PE lessons and the Drama studio is already used as a classroom when not in use for Drama lessons.

Granted not every classroom is in use every lesson, but that still leaves the issue of staff - we are already understaffed as it is.

As for the suggestion of longer days/shorter holidays, noblegiraffe has already said about directed time - even if you take out the time normally allocated for parents evenings and whole school meetings/cpd it still wouldn't give enough time to extend the school day.

My school seemed cheerfully oblivious to a pandemic until the week before all schools closed. I think just as things shut down very quickly, things will resume normality very quickly too.

Yep.

My son’s school had parents night with hundreds of parents when I was already wfh and we had stopped socialising and kids clubs had stopped - no PPE, distancing , and no one seemed bothered. Around 1 in 40 estimated to have the virus. If it was that dangerous surely the unions would have advised their members not to attend work.

Months later - 1 in 2800 people have it and falling and its “not safe” to go back to work normally. It makes no sense to me, but perhaps someone will finally explain the logic. And if it’s not safe, how low does the risk have to be before it is?

SD won’t happen in schools so it’s an utter farce planning for it.

Also I thought schools didn’t close due to risks to Teachers and kids anyway, it was to prevent wider spread when kids were thought to be superspreaders

Lulu is talking bollocks, frankly. Particularly enjoyed the bullshit last paragraph which Goady twats always insert.

They will now have to return because shielding is being removed.

Only if your workplace is covid secure. There’s no way in which most classrooms could be described as covid secure.

I’d imagine they’ll just drop SD. Although maybe they’re expecting a second wave that will justify reduced teaching so they’re just saying this placate people.

Most classes have significantly fewer than 30 children - at secondary anyway. DS1s primary has fewer than 30 in a class- between 23 and 26.

Where the hell do you teach? My secondary struggles to fit classes as it is, exam season is a nightmare. Even bottom sets have 25-30 kids.

Nobody is saying that every school will find the logistics equally difficult but if you really were a teacher you'd understand why even schools in the best position will have substantial difficulty.

The unions have been trying to discuss practicalities since lockdown started. They only went public with concerns when BJ announced reopening without any consultation or plan- after spending months telling schools that they weren't reopening until summer.

It's like BJ is trying to engineer a fight.

The more I think about it, the more angry I am that a supposed teacher could come and present inaccuracies as fact and give fuel to the teacher bashers. The "finally the truth" comment which ignores the difficulties posted in numerous threads and effectively calls us all liars because this poster chooses to believe this one statement, which is wholly incorrect as a generalisation about the vast majority if schools, instead of those telling the actual truth about their own situations time and time again. This just proves how quickly people think teachers are a bunch of lazy, obstructive liars. I despair- I really do.

@BillBaileysBum

Lulujakey THANK YOU.

Finally someone telling the truth.

The one account you believe is that of an ex-teacher? Says it all really.

Well @LuluJakey1 I teach in the north east but I clearly don’t work for your husband. The only class I teach of lessons than 30 is in the sixth form. We do have stuff like gyms etc but in the winter they are used for lessons. It’s not just dead space...

We will be back full time in September because by then they will have scrapped all social distancing. The unions are not trying to block a return to school; they’re just pointing out that, under current conditions, it’s not as simple as getting them all back in.

I teach secondary, and I wouldn’t recognise my HTs spouse.

Just saying

It's another whole three months away. Anything could have happened by then just look at the past three months and how many changes we have had in that time.

By September there may be no 1m rule... They may say continue with thorough cleaning and good hand sanitation...
Providing cases havnt risen again before then

@LuluJakey1

DH is aHead of a secondary school and I was a teacher. I am so sick of the teacher unions and their ridiculous statements. We don't need double the number of teachers- and they only say that because they know it is impossible to make happen. Most classes have significantly fewer than 30 children - at secondary anyway. DS1s primary has fewer than 30 in a class- between 23 and 26. At secondary in most schools - not all- there are some very small groups of low ability children, of unpopular GCSE option subjects and at Post-16. Most schools - not all- have spaces they could use differently such as halls, drama studios, PE facilities. DH's school has 2 halls, a gym, an indoor football centre, an unused old library space (they had a new library), a large 6th form common room and 6 classrooms that have been used as department offices that could be changed back.

Another secondary school near us with falling numbers has more rooms unused than used.

If schools got rid of the crap they hoard they could clear a deal of extra space

Many teachers - particularly those with higher TLRs and school leaders have significant numbers of non-teaching periods and could teach a lot more than they do.

Other ideas:
Lengthen the day and have children on staggered starts and timetables.

Fewer school holidays with the time put to the same use- ensuring children are able to access school full-time.

Teachers unions have emerged from this as making teachers sound workshy and unwilling to do their job- which I know the majority certainly are not. However, I think lots more than the public are aware of have declared themselves unable to set foot in the school for one reason or another. It was going to cause huge issues- the the LA DH works in the numbers of teachers claiming they could not return for 'health reasons' was over 200. They will now have to return because shielding is being removed. The LA could not possibly have found that many teachers.

I bumped into one of DH's staff in Newcastle - a Head of a large dept. She told me - in the city centre where she was shopping- that she is shielding and has not been at work at all and it's been great. She has been walking the dog, been on a diet, has decorated two rooms, sorted out her house and hardly done any work. She has met friends every day to go for walks. I was

This is not true for my school, so you should be careful with the impressions you're giving to parents on here. At my school we have had huge redundancy processes for the past 4 years. We have shed almost half the teaching staff. Barely any staff have TLRs and we all teach to our absolute maximum--I have 2 free periods a week. We have no unutilised space. Our class sizes are enormous.

I work in a primary school and LuluJakey1's description doesn't even come close to the reality here.

The classrooms are all very much in use. They are so tightly packed with children that you can't get from one side of the room to the other without having to ask a child to stand up for a moment and push their chair in.

Every single space is in use. We have intervention groups in corridors and under the staircases. One room is an empty store cupboard!

We have 3 year groups who have now returned. 2 of those have a take-up of around 40%. The other has around 25% of children returning. Spaces were offered for every single child in those year groups.

There are a lot of parents who are not yet willing to send their children back to school - even with small bubbles. I find it hard to believe that those same parents will be rushing to send their children back in September with 30 to a class and no SD.

Lulu is entitled to describe her own (well her husband's, she doesn't teach) experience. I'm sure she can see the issue being that her post is immediately jumped on by someone who wants to view it as representative of all schools and all teachers, when I'm sure Lulujakey would claim nothing of the sort.

I really really hope this isn't true. I absolutely hate what my job has become now I appear to be a keyworker babysitter.

Also my son (not a genius by a long stretch) enters yr10 in September he can't possibly start GCSE courses from home and expect to get 4s and 5s at the end.
I have and will continue to tell my union I want to go back to my real job ASAP.

Honestly, surely there is no way in the world you would admit to your HTs spouse that you’ve been meeting friends etc while shielding!

I’m not going to lie and say these past few months have been super difficult; they haven’t, although I know I don’t speak for everyone. I haven’t enjoyed setting work remotely as the school are very restrictive and what would take me minutes to do for an actual lesson takes me three hours to do the way the school want it.

However I have no commute, parents evenings, no meetings, no marking and no tutor things, so can’t complain.

I honestly think that September is the best thing now, for everybody. There is no way we can do any decent teaching in July at the best of times!

Why do people come on here making sweeping statements then all there evidence come from one school, I’ve worked in 5 schools I’ve a child with lifetime disability and a bog std high achieving one. I’ve seen and learned a lot from a variety of experience , but I still wouldn’t consider myself an expert

Yes the 'finally the truth post' and the wildly inaccurate post that prompted it was deeply irritating.

I think our school has done really well in the circumstances - we have a class in the village hall (long before the guidance not to was released - thanks for that, Governement ). We had enough classrooms (Key Worker children in the Y3/4 classroom) but not enough toilets, or outdoor space to be able to run 4 groups on a playtime / lunchtime rota.
We've done our best to overcome the teachers having to have a group in all day AND maintain home learning for their other year group.

Also - would love to work in this area of class sizes of 23-26. I always think the ideal class size is 24 (so many factors! ). We have 29-31, which is pretty normal, I'd say. Apart from in goady PP's school, obviously.