Winchester College attrition

[BucklandBeacon]

Can anyone shed light on the numbers and circumstances of boys being 'asked' to leave Winchester at 16? I've seen and heard oblique references to this- and to other schools taking former Winchester boys for sixth form- but it's a hard issue to pin down. DS has offers from more than one school and we are trying to make sense of the choices ahead....

Thanks @abear. What a relief. As a parent whose DS chose Winchester over Eton I've found the debate rather reassuring on both counts.

So your next task naturally would be to find out are these small number of boys who leave Winchester after GCSE, top performers, middling performers or the lowest performers at WinColl.

"So isn't it possible that boys who are invited to leave- and their families- are face-saving by claiming this as their choice, in search of something more rounded or 'real'? I'm struggling to see why having opted for a Winchester education, with all that entails, they would then voluntarily sack it at 16. Winchester isn't everyone's cup of tea but those who make it are generally pretty committed to it, No?"

You are not the only one struggling, BucklandBeacon, you have good company here! But you have to take this explanation with a large ladle full of salt.

@BucklandBeacon
Full Disclosure: my DS is an OW (Old wykemyist) he left at the end of VI Book 1 (Year 13) and spent his secondary school career in Wincoll.

Wincoll is generally a selective school like most other public schools and to enter it has the "Entrace" or "Election" exams depending on whether you are trying to get a scholarship into the school. Not that a scholarship means much other than really a title the normal students and the scholars are not segregated and are streamed into sets as per their academic ability. On the point about saturday school its just in the morning. Tuesdays Thursdays and saturdays are half days and school starts at 8:45 and ends at 13:00 and 12:25 on a saturday. Monday Wednesday and Friday are full days start: 8:45 ends:18:00 with a break between 13:00 and 16:00 for lunch and sport. Timetable is a bit different in summer but is roughly the same.except lessons as sports are swapped round.

If you have done some research into wincoll you will know that they are relatively academic and pride themselves on it. At 16 in their third year in Common Time (Spring term) boys who are not performing well will be sent a letter that details their predicted GCSE grades (which i must say from what i know are relatively accurate). Winchester has a criteria to continue on to A-Level/Pre-U and that is 6 As or in the new system 6 "7s" and you need to get at least that in your GCSEs to stay in the school. HOWEVER, and i must stress this getting less that 6 "7s" does not mean you have to leave, i your academic record is otherwise stellar or you have been performing well over the past year or two they will most likely give you an academic probation in which you are essentially cautioned and told to raise your grades or you will be asked to leave. You will be "asked" to leave if your grades are sub par and your academic performance has been poor over your time at the school.This policy was introduced because the school was doing Pre-U qualifications instead of A-Levels. Pre-U qualifcations require a significant level of independant research and personal projects which the school supports on top of the normal A-Level style syllabus with a few additional topics. Generally the Pre-U is generally regarded as needing pupils to cover topics more in depth than most boards which offer A-Level namely AQA which is arguably the easiest A-level (saying this tongue in cheek its from what I hear from parents at other schools).

On the note about Oxbridge - yes people leave to join a state school because you are statistically more likely to get in from a state school than a public school because the media is applying pressure to those establishments as many state schools claim they are disadvantaged compared to public/private schools. This could not be further from the truth state schools have access to "outreach" programs for universities which allow students to attend short courses or have experiences from some of the best universities in the country. These programs are completely off limits to all private/public schools pupils. Needless to say this provides some advantage over public schools who struggle to get their pupils experiences like this. Another good example of bias toward the state schools in general are access schemes essentially if your classed as being disadvantaged because you went to a school where people get Cs and Ds at GCSES you get reduced offer grades for Universities thus reducing equality which ironinc as some state schools and some media outlets preach equality is what we need. UCL's access scheme for their highly competitive medicine course is as follows: (below is the grades they need to meet at A-Level to get in if offered a place)
Private school/public school/not disadvantaged : A* A A
Disadvantaged/state school: A A B.

Just to clarify most of the people who leave tend to be lower performing band of the school's cohort or occasionally those who transition to a school like peter symonds or a state school to qualify for state school only programs/offers. This is more of a tactical thing to game the system in my opinion and most wincoll pupils who leave for this reason is just because they are trying to improve their own odds

Because private school kids are seriously disadvantaged v state schools kids

Yes dear, that’s what all the failed entrants tell themselves

Gosh what a very heated thread - especially from some whose boys are not at Winchester! My DS started in September and is loving the school. As said, dorm sizes vary by house and the choice of house is vital.
More interestingly they have introduced sports scholarships and exhibitions in the last 2 years, one of which my DS got, in an effort to improve their sports standards (which were below par.) so DS gets 1 hour of strength and conditioning, 1 hour of one2one coaching on his sport, on top of about 15 hours of sport a week. Equally if your boy is not sporty can spend the majority of this time on music or drama as hey have a choice on Mon/wed/fri pm.
But need to have the right bit for the right school. WINCHESTER is full on (as I'm sure Eton is!) hope this is helpful. We are thrilled with the sports provision which is not that known about!

@JustAnotherParent1975

I have to say as someone who helps prepare students for Oxbridge admission and someone who has done admission interviews while I was at Cambridge your comments about state school students having an advantage over those at private schools is astonishingly innaccurate. I assume you know the huge advantages conferred by a private education and that's why you paid large sums of money to provide it for your child.

I've taken part in access schemes and they aim to encourage students from disadvantaged backgrounds to consider applying to Oxbridge when the idea might never have occured to them or they might have felt too out of place. They don't offer an advantage for the selection procudure. A bright student at Wincol clearly will have considered applying anyway and will probably have parents or teachers who can easily arrange a visit for him so would gain no advantage from the access scheme.

The students who might get very slightly lower offers are students who have been proved to have major disadvantage in their life. Students who have been in care or who have been in very very underperforming schools (not students who transfer from wincol to a highly performing local state sixth form). These are students who will have been sitting, bored in the back of a loud disruptive class room for 6 years and largely taught themselves. They have certainly not had an advantage over a boy who has been sitting surrounded by other bright boys and highly qualified staff for 6 years being constantly challenged and with every resource available to him.

Wish there'd been a 'popcorn' alert at the start of this thread!

whycan'tithinkofagoodone. Exactly. Fair access.

I read recently (and will search the link, no promises) that a major accountancy firm went off piste and decided to ditch their prior policy of disregarding any post-grad entry applicants of 2:2 and below as being 'unworthy'; replacing it with forensic, in depth interviewing, inc 2:2.

You can almost predict the results, down the line, in terms of success, promotion, wage.

Guess what?

I look upon so many of you mums of 12-13 year olds, desperate to lay the right educational experience at the feet of your child; will it be Eton? Will it be Winchester? 2 to a room? 12? Alone? Div?.. How can I make it perfect?- and I want to go 'Chill'.

You Don't Have Anything Like The Influence You Think You Have Over Your Child's Future wealth Happiness.

Loved Schroedinger's private pupil; advantaged via small class sizes of committed fellow students, educated in state-of-the-art facilities by specialist teachers while also being disadvantaged by their advantage when applying for uni. 😂

The top unis know that sixth form college students will go on to do well, and are a safe bet. Nothing to do with "unfairness" against privately educated applicants.

www.psc.ac.uk/news-item/845#