Cost of childcare and private school fees in London for 1 child

[Desiringonlychild]

Hello, DH and I just bought a 2 bed flat in London in an area with good state schools. We are planning to have 1 child and to send him or her to private school (perhaps). Just curious how much do the people who send 1 child to private school earn (not talking about eton/harrow; fees of £15k-18k per annum which is quite similar to childcare)? We are ok with staying in our flat if it means DC gets the best education.

Also what percentage of your income should you spend on school fees? Is 30% too much? Thanks.

For perspective, the schools in my area are Martin, akiva (we are Jewish), holy trinity c of e, st theresa, brookland and the local secondary is archer.

You have a joint income of £50k and you're looking to spend £15k of that on school fees? Christ. What was the point in buying near good state schools then?

Actually I was thinking more of 30% of post tax income. We bought in that area cos we like that area and it was near family and it didn't force us to choose private!

Also no baby yet. If I thought going private was important, I would save for longer. Or wait to earn more.

Most schools have their fees listed on their websites. It does vary quite a bit and not all private schools will offer a brilliant education. As in everything, in education you get what you pay for. I would look at sending him to best prep possible and hoping for scholarships and bursaries for senior school. 30% is a perfectly reasonable amount to spend. We spend about 20% at the moment (pre prep but outside on London). Ultimately there is literally nothing better to spend money on.

Lol. Where in london can a couple earning combined £50k buy a flat?!

Well that was exactly what I thought no need to be sarcastic

Because of where you are you have two issues 1) affording it 2) getting in! Getting into Highgate requires some sort of act of divine intervention. Same for NLCS if you have a girl. What's more likely is a place at Annemount or the Avenue. The head at Annemount is rather um abrasive and that either works for you or it doesn't. The kids in both prepreps will be tutored. The 7+ isn't fun but it's not as bad as the 11+. If you're willing to commute into Hampstead each day you'll have a lot more choice.

As for cost it depends on your other outgoings. It also depends on whether or not you'll be comfortable being one of the poorest families and how that will be for your child.

Sorry. Not meaning to be sarcastic. Was crying a bit on the inside regarding London property prices (esp around the good state schools)

The family homes in my area (not a cottage or a flat) are 800K. I think affording such a house is a lot more impressive/expensive than sending 1 child to private school.

@Humpdayruminations I was thinking more of cavendish or st paul than those two options. But I would look at them ( as well as all the state schools). I am not UK born (DH went to a top London jewish comprehensive and thought it was abysmal) so I don't discriminate between state and private. A good school is a good school. But I don't like the feeling that if the best school for my child is the private option, I can't afford it. I am ok with my child being one of the poorest, I was raised to be very frugal (except when it comes to education) and one of my earliest memories was my classmate complaining to my mother that I had inadequate pocket money!

@Velveteenfruitbowl THank you. If its not too intrusive, is that pre tax or post tax>

Personally I'd go state for primary, find the best tutors (you'll need it in N London as the competition is a bit crazy) then independent for secondary then state again for 6th form.

You may be lucky and win a scholarship or be eligible for a bursary. If you are young and kids are a way off then consider investing monthly straight away in stocks and shares - this is only worthwhile though I think if you have 13+ years to invest before the money is needed. A £100 a month could generate £20,000 + in 13-15 years. Secondary in London is about £20K per year plus extras (trips etc) - approx £6k invoice each term. Fees usually go up annually.

N London has some very good state secondary schools btw.

@Lightsabre the schools in N London (state and private) are one big reason why I didn't leave N London.

The 6K invoice-- does that refer to the extras and school trips? So is it an extra 6K per term on top of the 20K?

@Desiring that’s net.

My daughter is at a North London prep even though we had a good comp on our doorstep because (having come from abroad, living in a rather crappy area and only having one kid) I wanted to give her the best possible start in life. It's on the cheaper end of the prep schools and I pay just over £4000 per term, but with extras it's about £4500. The school is extremely focused on academics and on "prepping" the kids for the 11+, as it only goes up to Year 6.

Is it worth it? That's the big question. It's definitely good for very academic high achieving kids because the pace and amount of work they do is pretty insane. It's not so good for the average kid who wants a nurturing primary school and not something like 2 hours of homework each night (my daughter is in Year 5). Plus most kids have tutors for the 11+. It's very competitive and the kids are very ambitious. I have heard from parents of older siblings that the kids who go onto secondary schools are ahead at first (even at the highly competitive independents like Habs) because the curriculum at the primary is so intense.

If I were to do it all over again though, I would choose the local comp any day and then get a tutor for the 11+ to try for the grammars (which I have to pay for anyway on top of the school fees to keep up with all the heavily tutored kids).

It really depends on the kid and on what you want from a primary education.

We are also Jewish (albeit not religious) and I would definitely look into faith schools.

My husband was raised orthodox and went to JFS and hated it. As I am a convert (liberal), super religious schools are off limits for me anyway, except for JFS who have been forced to accept Jews from all denominations. Hasmoneans excludes irreligious kids by inserting all sorts of practice based requirements. I actually know a kid from synagogue whose mum isn't Jewish but was raised Jewish and chose to go to JFS.

My husband is more pro private school than me as his experience of comprehensives is limited to JFS and he thought it was a bad school. Academically, JFS seems better than archer, fortismere and even the saint Albans schools that all the middle class parents are clamouring to get their children into (correct me if I am wrong). So I am thinking, if JFS looked bad to my husband, how bad must those other state schools be?!

Archer is religious too but not as much as JFS will be. JFS is a bubble and not a reflection of getting a state education and not a very good representation of them imo. I don't think it's a bad school it's just not a true state school. Tbh education is changing so much schools will likely be pretty unrecognisable once your child is secondary age. Take APS as an example. 12 years ago it was getting kids from as far as Tottenham, now the catchment is 0.4 miles and a lot of Alexandra palace area kids are going to Heartlands because they can't get in. My DD has just started at Heartlands and the y7s look like a gang of middle class kids compared to the year 11s. Save as much as you can, don't worry too much in advance and go to the open evenings once your child is due to go. You don't know what need they have or what education funding will look like. You may end up hating being in a flat with a child and all your priorities will change. You will never regret saving though.

@47Foxesandsquirrels appreciate your points. Not sure what you mean by a true state school?

Also I think I will be fine in a flat with a child. In my country, 95% of people live in flats. I grew up in a house and used to envy my classmates in their flats (esp the ones with swimming pools!). So I never thought I would ever afford anything but a flat.

£6-£7k per term (might include lunches, books etc). Trips not usually included but might be reduced if you're on a bursary. You may need to use school transport which near us is around £400-£500 per term. Uniform can also be expensive but second hand sales are popular. Each school is different so you'd have to look at the fees small print carefully. Budget £2K a month at today's prices out and f your taxed income.

If things will be tight, consider how your child will fit in socially - for some kids it can really crush their confidence if their peers have the latest gadgets, clothes, fabulous holidays, super tutors (££ and yes, many private school kids also have tutors on top) etc. This seems to gain importance at secondary as teenagers become more self conscious.

No experience of Jewish state schools here, but my mum is quite senior at the Jewish Community in Düsseldorf (Germany) and their school is one everyone is trying to get into. Our non-Jewish German neighbours sent all their kids and grandkids there. It's a great school. It all depends on the individual school.

@Lightsabre Re your point about children feeling self conscious in school about fitting in; I grew up in Singapore and went to a top school. The fees were not extortionate and I had a scholarship (as did many of the other kids) but a lot of my classmates were not far removed from the set of crazy rich Asians. But I never felt bad because of this. Like obviously I knew my parents weren't crazy rich tycoons.

Does any child expect their parents to be crazy rich? That would seem quite unreasonable.

What I mean is a comprehensive school accepting children from all backgrounds with a mixed intake. There are plenty of schools like for eg Camden school for girls and st Marylebone that are nothing like an average state school. Going to a famous Jewish school or one of the other famous state schools is not a representation of where your child would end up if they went to their local school.

I also think you need to realise the youth in the UK is very different to Asia and other places. You have a completely different upbringing to what your child will experience and the pressures they will have. It may be a bigger deal than you think that you're living in a flat but it may be nothing. This is just throwing guesses into the wind. I do know though that the kids I know who went to private schools on bursaries or their parents were stretching themselves thin living in basement flats, did feel the difference. That's for you to decide if the sacrifice is worth it. But until you meet your child and their needs it's impossible to tell.

Don’t forget childcare costs for 18 weeks holidays

@Foxesandsquirrels I see what you mean. There were many rich kids at JFS even in my husband's day when private school fees were a lot lower, because anti-Semitism is always a concern as well as religious education. So my husband was one of the poorest kids in the whole school. JFS is the largest Jewish school, so it's not very exclusive, it is just the default for people who want a (orthodox) Jewish education for their kids and are not super religious (Jcoss did not exist back in the day).

I think that at schools like fortismere and arche, it probably would be the same. While I was looking at flats, I almost bought this flat in Muswell hill which was opposite Eden primary and 0.1 miles from fortismere. The seller was someone who owned a 4 bed house in wood green but was desperate to get her daughter into fortismere, so she bought that flat for £350k and moved in(left the house in wood green vacant). The second bedroom was 2.7m by 2.1 m, not ideal for an 11 year old. She told me something that I still remember- the people at twyford avenue are spending millions of pounds on a house to get into fortismere, I only spend £350k and still get the same school. The reason why she sold was because she lost her job and could not maintain two properties simultaneously. But I can imagine that the same issue exists for her daughter- she is living in a tiny room while her classmates are living in some glamorous mansion.

I remember thinking- this is a crazy world when you have to buy ££££ property to get into a school.

Oh this is very very normal you will find. But again, Fortismere is not a great representation of a state school for exactly this reason. You will find that a lot of 'socially or politically conscious' people will slate private schools but will do exactly as this woman did and think it's ok. Allocation of school places is an absolute nightmare so I don't envy you and I'm glad it's behind us.

Also, she's very fortunate she didn't get caught! What she did was illegal and lots of people are getting their places withdrawn because of this. There was a thread a while back where a woman got allocated a school place 25 miles away because they failed to sell that house and they moved to their new one just because admissions deadlines. The council didn't care and said they are trying to game the system.