Cost of childcare and private school fees in London for 1 child

[Desiringonlychild]

Hello, DH and I just bought a 2 bed flat in London in an area with good state schools. We are planning to have 1 child and to send him or her to private school (perhaps). Just curious how much do the people who send 1 child to private school earn (not talking about eton/harrow; fees of £15k-18k per annum which is quite similar to childcare)? We are ok with staying in our flat if it means DC gets the best education.

Also what percentage of your income should you spend on school fees? Is 30% too much? Thanks.

St. Paul's from Hampstead Garden Suburb/East Finchley would be a hellacious commute. You'd be better off buying a flat in west London. That's a realllllly awful commute for a child. Does this child exist yet?

Just to point out - a school which wasn't great when your dh went there may have changed beyond all recognition by the time your child gets there. So it might be worth looking at judging it on what it is like when the time comes, rather than automatically ruling it out.

Fees for dd went from about 4k pa in Reception to 16k pa in year 13 outside London, with extras at around 10%. They rise well above annual rate of inflation. Remember this is from net income so allow 40%+ for deductions from salary. Can you afford to save so you have some money ring-fenced for fees?

@Humpdayruminations I saw quite a few parents on the same journey as me when I go to work. St paul is near where I work.

Nope child does not exist yet. Hence time to save. I am 27 so much younger than most London mummies

Oh wow, well done for getting on the property ladder at that age!

Good sales tactic to say for 350k you'll get the catchment people pay 1M for. Made me chuckle.

In my area (Sutton), prep schools tend to cost 12-16k a year. Senior schools vary more and you'd need to budget 18-30k for a day school. Schools also provide wrap around care (costs extra) so you'd just need to budget for holidays. If you find it all a stretch, you could move to an area with cheaper housing and top state schools - go state for primary and then pay fees for secondary unless you're happy with a state school. Not sure if you're aware, but there are 'grammar schools' too - they are academically selective state schools that are super high achieving.

@JoJoSM2 she bought in 2017 for £350k and I think she did end up selling at £385k (not to me as I thought it was too small for that price). I ended up buying something nearer the tube station.

Yes I am aware about the grammar schools, Barnet has 3 grammar schools (2 secular, 1 Catholic). For me, I would prefer grammar over private but I want to have the money for private if that makes sense. I perused a lot of Mumsnet threads and it seems easier to get into a top private than grammar. And the reason I moved to be near a decent comp (archer) was because if my DC did not do well enough to get into a decent private, I am not spending all that money for a private school that isn't academic, comp would be good enough.

I looked at Sutton too but it would have taken too long to get to synagogue and my hubby (and I ) hate commuting. Also are the comps in Sutton decent?

@JoJoSM2 also re moving out to cheaper areas, this often means moving out to the commuter belt which would mean combined costs of £7-8k for DH and me. If saved and invested over the years, that money could be earmarked for school fees and make private school more viable.

@JoJoSM2 also my local Jewish school, akiva,
was apparently ranked in the top 20 for state primary schools. I also belong to an affiliated synagogue. So I think in terms of state primary schools, my area is quite good. The question is whether prep school is better.

You’ve really done your homework, OP :)

If Jewish schools are important then you’re very well placed + there’s a large Jewish community in North London. It’ll be nice to be close to family and friends especially when you do have a child.

Speaking of Sutton, it does have grammars and excellent comps (it’s the no 1 LA in England). And fab primaries too. It’s in London, mostly in zone 5 with some less useful stations in zone 4 so affordable commuting and close enough that some people cycle into work.

Going back to your original question, I’d probably struggle with the idea of spending 30% of income on school fees, especially if you also need to pay for wrap around and holiday care + mortgage etc as it might leave you with barely anything. Having said that, you’re only very young so your earnings might go up. It might also be an idea to save up now as once you have a baby, childcare costs a lot + you can’t both work v long hours as someone needs to look after the child.

Another option which some people take is to pay down their mortgage and then remortgage to pay for schooling.

In terms of getting into grammars, Sutton grammars are easier to get into than the Barnet or Kingston ones. The SE London and Kent ones are easier again. Obv a lot could change between now and you having a 10yo.

The way fees are getting up every year I would be cautious/cynical about the merits of saving ( as in saving account). Pay off debts/mortgage first and invest (in own career, buy to let, start a business etc). Fees go up by 4%/year, so in 10 years time a typical London prep that is now 18-20k will be easily 27 - 30k/year, and in 15 years most secondary day schools in London/South East will be 35-45k. So I guess you would get best value for money if you have your baby asap and then try to get the best education you can afford early on and lay very good foundations (including music, sport, art if that matters to you) and be prepared that you might get priced out as hyper-fee inflation continues.

TBH, if you’re Jewish, definitely look into the faith schools. We have DS at JCoSS and the education he is receiving is fantastic. He went to the local state primary. Many of his friends went to prep schools and were offered scholarships to private schools but opted for JCoSS.

I know where you’re coming from with JFS, but I can assure you, JCoSS is nothing like it!

I think there's a Synagogue in Cedar Road Sutton, although it sounds like where you are is better in other ways

we are Jewish

As I am a convert

Do you mean you are a Jew rather than Jewish?

I echo pp about private secondary rather than prep.
I think it would be good to experience state schools first (primary) also.

@Bluelightdistrict If the OP converted, she is Jewish. What's with "you are a Jew?"  I wasn't aware there was a distinction!

Anyway FWIW, a propos @Swimmum1206's comment about JCoSS, you may well have seen already it got the Sunday Times state school of the year for London this weekend. Was the top performing comp in London for A levels apparently (if you don't count the partially-selective Camden School for Girls where loads of kids transfer in from the private sector at 6th form). Tbh, as you say yourself, with the state options you would have available locally being so strong, I'd save your money for other things.

@Zinnia How can you convert to an ethnicity?

@Bluelightdistrict "Jewish" is a word which, almost uniquely, refers to both adherents of a religion and to members of an ethnicity. By extension, are you implying that the OP's putative child(ren) would be "half Jewish", regardless of their mother's status? How exactly is being "a Jew" different from being "Jewish"? One word is an actual variant of the other!

I hope your remarks are coming from a position of lack of knowledge, otherwise you should be aware that they are deeply offensive. There's enough of that sort of religion vs ethnicity nonsense on Twitter without bringing it to the MN education boards.

Sorry OP really wasn't intending the discussion to take this swerve!

@Zinnia Jewish believe in
Matrilineality so OP'S children would not be half Jewish, no.

Jewish identity is also commonly defined through ethnicity. Opinion polls have suggested that the majority of Jews see being Jewish as predominantly a matter of ancestry and culture, rather than religion.

A basic Wikipedia reading will assist you.

How is it offensive to state what Jewish believe?
@Zinnia

It's not offensive to state Jewish belief. It is offensive to suggest (as your initial comment on this matter, drawing a distinction between being "Jewish" and "a Jew", appeared to do) that converts are not "proper" Jews. In Judaism, a convert is to be accepted as fully part of the Jewish community, on no account to be disparaged because of their previous identity. I've no wish to speak on the OP's behalf here, but this is in fact Jewish belief.

There is indeed a whole Wikipedia page on conversion to Judaism, if you're interested in reading about the subject further.

Anyway this is massively off-topic and I respectfully suggest we leave it here.

@Zinnia Where did I state anything about being a proper Jew?
You can convert to Judaism and become a Jew, sure.
You cannot become Jewish. It's quite a simple concept.
^
'^However, Jewish identity is firmly intertwined with Jewish ancestry dating back to the historical Kingdom of Israell^, which was largely depopulated by the Roman Empire c. first century CE, leading to what is known as today as the Jewish Diasporaa^.'

What you're suggesting is actually quite offensive that Jewish people are Jewish due to their religion and you are paying no attention to their ethnicity.

You're disregarding the Israelite and Hebrew ancestry.

You really should study the history more.

Um no, as I said earlier - "Jewish" is a word which, almost uniquely, refers to both adherents of a religion and to members of an ethnicity. "

I really don't think most Jews would see it the way you suggest, as they instinctively understand the blurred lines between religious, cultural and ethic Jewish identities.

Jewish converts are considered Jewish, ancestry notwithstanding. Throughout history, converts have become part of the warp and weft of Jewish family lines. It's not a proselytising religion and conversion is not undertaken lightly.

Every branch of Judaism has its own approach to it, and obviously not every branch of Judaism recognises all versions of the conversion process (a fact that has been educationally relevant in recent memory), but those processes are robust and respected in their communities.

Clearly we don't agree, and again I don't think this is the right place to have the argument. I do think that if the OP identifies as Jewish, and is recognised as such by her synagogue, it's not for you to dispute that.

TL,DR: semantics, shemantics

I really don't think most Jews would see it the way you suggest, as they instinctively understand the blurred lines between religious, cultural and ethic Jewish identities.

Really? My family may disagree with you there.

and is recognised as such by her synagogue,

How do you know this?

I, for one, don't know of anyone in the Jewish communities in London who view converts as Jewish ethnicities.

I said "if the OP identifies as Jewish, and is recognised as such by her synagogue..."

And at no point have I said that conversion changes ethnicity, just that the word "Jewish" is used to denote both ethnicity and religion. I am bewildered as to why you are still arguing about this.

@Zinnia Nope you cannot change your ethnicity. You can, however, convert to Judaism and follow the religion but you are not Jewish.

I am bewildered as to why you are still arguing about this.

I can't argue with myself. You keep saying this but keep responding.