Does anyone else think the Duke of Edinburgh scheme is deliberately designed as a torment for parents?

[EllenMP]

Just that, really. Who thought this was a good idea for 14 year olds? Do 14 year olds know what volunteering opportunities are available to them? Do they have to pay for the skills lessons they will be needing? Can they drive themselves about to their weekly skills and volunteering sessions? Do they understand what they need to do to document their activities and will they do it without nagging and assistance? Are they able to beg, borrow or steal (and ultimately buy, of course) full camping equipment to be used for two short "expeditions"?

I mean, I'm glad someone is taking my kid camping, because God knows I don't plan to do so, but I feel there must be a simpler way to achieve that. It's not like a Bronze award means so much that it's worth the extra effort. I say at least skip it until they are 16 or so and can manage more of the organising on their own. But then they have exams to worry about and it's one more layer of stress they don't need.

The whole thing is too much like hard work. For me, I mean. But also for them.

Ah that’s good to know !

Did it? For some reason I thought it started in the late 1980s. I've never heard of anyone older than in their 40s doing it. Anyway, it wasn't a big thing or promoted very much at all in my school in the early 90s, and in many schools now nearly everyone seems to take part.

I started mine at school at the end of the 70s.

Re the personal statement I’ve read several things on MN by those teaching at unis that DoE really doesn’t give any benefit. I think this is good as it is elitist and so many have it it really isn’t unusual now.Paying for DoE, the kit, giving up time to get kids places,paying for a skill( eg music lessons), paying for a sport..... it’s all way out of the financial budget for many kids. Most of it is just things mc kids do anyway. Music and sport lessons. You can do voluntary work anyway.I too am fed up with the emails requesting further money and very little else. Where does it all go if parents are all paying anyway?

Our son simply joined the local police cadets - through them he could get his skills and volunteering signed off, i.e. skills being simply learning about basic police procedures, and volunteering was through them helping out cycle post coding, christmas present wrapping, helping out at local events such as tractor pulls etc. All completely free - they even provide the uniform free of charge. He' not remotely interested in joining the police, but it doesn't matter to them.

Some of his friends did it via other cadet forces, such as army, navy, fire service, and also St John Ambulance have a "junior" section which qualifies for skills/volunteering too! All of those are free too.

Do 14 year olds know what volunteering opportunities are available to them?
All our students do and often it's linked to clubs and activities they are already involved with.
Do they have to pay for the skills lessons they will be needing?
Most students who do DofE are the sort of students who lead active enrichment lives outside of lessons and they can use school enrichment and existing lessons/hobbies/sports for DofE. Not all are costly.
Can they drive themselves about to their weekly skills and volunteering sessions?
Obviously not, but part of being a parent is accepting your teenagers will need transporting place surely? That's the case for any activity a teen does.
There's lift shares, some skills are after school clubs, walking, public transport etc too. Surely someone with limited capacity for their child to do things would know that before signing up to do d of e?
Do they understand what they need to do to document their activities and will they do it without nagging and assistance?
DofE is an exercise in resilience and organisation. The best DofE candidates (and the majority in my experience) don't need nagging because they're often already doing elements of DofE so they formally record what they're already doing. They need a hand on admin sometimes which we give as leaders but it's on them.

Some parents micromanage and those students don't benefit as much as those who learn independence.
Are they able to beg, borrow or steal (and ultimately buy, of course) full camping equipment to be used for two short "expeditions"?
Many centres have kit available. One set of active clothing is enough.

To be honest OP, if a spot of volunteering and a child doing enrichment opportunities is such a massive PITA to you then maybe they're better off not doing it. For the majority of DofE candidates, it's only a little bit more admin than things they are already doing.

If your school has a PTA you could ask them to help fund pooled kit. Our school PTA paid for tents, those camping gas stoves & some other equipment. DD borrowed a rucksack & sleeping bag from a friend. She wore my rain jacket & waterproof trousers and we bought a cheap melamine bowl & mug from Sainsbury’s. She volunteered through a national charity on the way home from school & her physical & skill were both things she already did.

DS didn’t do it at all, most of his school did but he refused.

DD2 didn’t do it as she is in a National Development Squad and acts and needs to be able to take part in both of those activities.

Does bell ringing still count as skill/volunteering. That's an easy one.

Yfc also used to count

Taking part in new activities and being challenged/pushed outside his comfort zone has definitely been beneficial to DS.

Who would have guessed that he would enjoy the social bonding aspect of the expeditions and solidarity in hiking through rain & mud plus voluntary group labouring/cleaning/painting the ATC HQ. Air cadets is a cheap activity btw and they also run DoE if school doesn’t. You get to fly and shoot which is pretty exciting for a teenager.

Fresh air, exercise, a good laugh plus some honest graft - what’s not to like as a parent? Certainly, means less hours on the PC gaming.

He even chose to continue park run (free at the local park) beyond the required period and has only stopped because he’s about to start volunteering for them instead for his Silver. You obviously can’t run and help organise it at the same time! There’s a waiting list normally at the local park run and ours only have 3 or 4 spaces for DoE volunteers at a time so your DC need to be prodded into organising themselves in advance.

I don’t think it’s useful for a uni application at all - but at least, he has potentially more things to talk about around adults than a monosyllabic grunt. Yeah, ok, I’m exaggerating but you get the gist.

Crucially for us, DS can get to the local park by himself. No Sat lie-ins for him.

When I did the DofE albeit 20 years ago part of the point of it was to get you to show some initiative so think up possible volunteering opportunities and ring up yourself to enquire. I lived in London to be fair so the driving around wasn't an issue as there was public transport. The camping equipment I guess my parents must have bought. It was only really the hiking bag (second hand) as the tend my friend had and we shared.

DD1 did it up to silver & there's absolutely no doubt it was good for her. She hated the volunteering at first but it really brought her out of her shell & got her chatting with adults & other DofE volunteers. Since this her confidence has really grown & now she's doing really well in a part time job whilst at 6th form. DD2 stopped at bronze but absolutely loved it, all beneficial especially the volunteering. Physical definitely had it's challenges for us all, trying to cram everything in the rucksack was an experience as was sorting out the food! Driving to far reaching places with a car full of teens & bags was er, fun too. School was supportive & we could hire a lot of the equipment for a really small fee. It does still work out quite expensive though but I do think it's worth it if your child wants to do it.

I avoided it like the plague and my son chose for himself not to do it. He is already full on with high commitment sport and music and if anything kids being on DofE gets in the way of other activities. I recall a conversation many years ago when I was being pressured to do it and I asked the pushy teacher to explain the precise mechanism by which getting cold and wet camping was going to help me get into Cambridge. He couldn’t. There are many other ways of doing charity and volunteering work. Financially and logistically, if schools want kids to do this they should provide the kit and transport and support for disabled if needed.

Why does it all have to be about getting into Cambridge?

DOE is likely to be more useful when applying for jobs due to the transferable skills than being a helping hand for university applications .

DOE is likely to be more useful when applying for jobs due to the transferable skills than being a helping hand for university applications

Everyone seems to do DOE these days, so it's lost it's impact for universities and employers. There was a time it made your cv stand out, but not anymore unless you get to Gold.

Kazzy is right about Gold

Why does it all have to be about getting into Cambridge?
Because that's how some people work.

We see some parents complaining about running a strong programme, not seeing what benefit there is in different elements and who are only interested in being able to tick a box somewhere.

Equally, we've seen some students who would love to do it but because home want Cambridge or Oxford they've decided that anything that doesn't gain points there directly isn't worth doing so they put them off, view some enrichment activities as a waste of their time etc regardless of whether the child will enjoy it.

It's a very weird worldview.

That world view starts when the child is a baby. It's all about getting into the best school, to get into the best secondary, to get into Oxbridge. Never seems to be about the experience itself.

A note on skills - the not for profit cookery school I run offers home study/online DofE approved cookery courses (3 or 6 months) in Street Food and Baking. There is a cost (as we have overheads and have to pay our tutors to assess and support the students), but there are also bursaries for low income families. I believe one of the first aid charities also offers a free online first aid skills course (and they are also an AAP - approved activity provider). The volunteering side can be tricky - and many organisations are reluctant to take on those under 16+. Brownies, Rainbows (and similar), libraries and activities organised by school seem to be the most popular amongst our cookery students who are 14/15.

The idea is that the kids work this out for themselves ( as we had to in the 1970s ) If you are running around sorting everything out for them , you are missing the point.
I was lucky with the volunteering as my mum was a Brown Owl , and I helped with Brownies anyway

Why does it all have to be about getting into Cambridge?

It doesn't. Some elements of what DD did towards her DofEs were relevant to mention on her PS (eg helping to run school robotics club) but she'd have done that anyway.

We didn't find her doing the 3 awards a 'torment' at all. We like walking so getting decent coat and boots was something we'd do anyway, the school had the camping gear, and the large rucksack is very useful for her now if she's travelling by train.
The one part I do agree with the OP is that finding suitable volunteering for under 16s can be difficult, esp if you don't live in a town, she did need help finding something and getting to it (wildlife trust at Brockholes had a specific thing for this age group twice a month, if anyone is in that area)

Meh, complete waste of time and effort.
Mine were too busy playing sport (right up to National level) and doing twice weekly Army cadets.
They gained far far more from those experiences than any over choreographed programme.
Cadets does offer DofE tho and for far less cost than most schools.