School threatens to not refund trip money

[bizzy1234]

My Dd has a very expensive year 11 trip to South Africa for a sports tour after her GCSEs.
Aside from being incredibly proud of herself to have been invited into the team she has never missed training or matches.
She has worked hard for about 18 months babysitting and washing cars to pay for half of it.
Unfortunately she has had 2 detention this year.. both minor offences such as using her phone in break.
She is a good kid and works hard.
The school have sent me a standard letter saying if she gets a third detention she will be disqualified from the sports trip and we will not be refunded.
Is this legal for them to a remove a child from a sports trip who apart from petty offences (she's had glowing reports).
NB it's a new deputy head who is handing out detentions like toffees!

Depends if they can fill the place I suppose. But you’re focusing on the wrong thing. If they’re not allowed phones then tell her you’ll confiscate it if she’s found with it at school. Really good students don’t get three detentions in quick succession.

Completely normal IME for schools to say that participation in trips is dependent on good behaviour.

I would tell her to leave her phone at home until after the trip, that way she can't ever be caught on it.

Do you think there is a chance she will miss behave in the short time that is left at school?

It might be an idle threat but I imagine it was in the T&C when you signed up for the trip so they probably can do it. If it is petty misdemeanours you might be able to negotiate if the worst happens but it's not worth the risk. The thought of missing out on the tri might focus her mind on not getting another detention!

Thanks for your replies... unfortunately she needs her phone for logistics purposes as it’s various people collecting her after school each day.

She’s had 2 detentions since September.

1. 3 detentions hardly seems like a lot so that seems a tad draconian
2. she needs to learn to keep her phone away during school
3. If she is excluded from the trip I very much doubt they can keep the money so if it comes to that I'd get some proper advice.

She doesn’t get to keep her phone if she can’t be trusted. Just get those picking her up to meet at the same time and place each day.
3 in a year is quite a lot. DS has had about that many in 5 years!!
They are taking kids abroad and need to be able to trust their behaviour. They can’t set detentions or tell you to come and get them if they misbehave. I can understand why they would say behaviour issues mean they can’t go. And the money? It’s to try and get parents to support the school and understand the seriousness of the situation. Plus if they have to be pulled out last minute then the school won’t be able to fill the place.

The law gives schools wide powers to set and enforce rules governing the behaviour of their pupils. So yes, it is legal for them to remove a child from a sports trip too many detentions.

God, what ridiculous pressure to put a young person under just before GCSEs. As an adult I don’t find this approach remotely constructive in boosting my performance.

Of course schools need to protect themselves against being away with unmanageable kids whose safety they cannot guarantee as a result. But this is way beyond that.

I gather a new Head has introduced one of the zero tolerance regimes where they really do get detentions for not sitting up straight enough. SLANT or whatever it is called.

Tell her to keep her phone turned off and in her bag. I am sure she will do OK. Do they get study leave or is she in school right up until GCSEs?

“3 in a year is quite a lot. DS has had about that many in 5 years!!” Same here, but my Dc were /are at a school (a S London comp, not leafy) where the approach seems based in a liking and respect for young people, not treating them like feral criminals from the off. The behaviour was good. With a true mix of kids.

Thanks for all your replies... and I agree 2 detentions may seem excessive... but she’s never had a single detention in all the 5 years she’s been at the school until the new deputy head started in September and is handing them out at the rate of knots...
She’s s very studious daughter that works hard and has had glowing reports.
These phone offences were due to to the fact the new phone ban came into place ... quite rightly... but they all thought it was from first bell till last bell... but apparently it’s from 8.30 which is 5 mins before the bell goes!!...
her fiend got a detention yesterday for Leaving her maths homework at home ... she’s another good kid I know her.. these kids are all swamped with work and study for GCSEs and yet these detentions distract them.
This new deputy head sounds like she’s trying to run the school like a prison camp!...
but my main reason for posting was can the school keep my money if my DD gets another one for some petty misdemeanour?

OP: I guess they would issue the ban but I would then write and appeal it and fight very strongly.

She needs to stay off her phone and start keeping to the rules. Kids shouldn’t be forgetting HW in Y11. It doesn’t matter how “good” they are. If they break rules they may face the consequences. Stop moaning about the consequences and start working with your child and the school to ensure she doesn’t have any more infringements.

It depends on if you were aware of the possibility of your daughter not being allowed to go if she recieved 3 detentions.
If not, I would respond to the school and say that they cannot decide to unilaterally change the terms of the contract and you do not accept this change in the terms.

It's not about keeping your money. They won't get the money back that has been paid to book the holiday. If they can't fill the place, they can't give the money back.

A detention for forgetting homework is fairly standard isn't it?

So don’t use the phone in school hours and get her assignments in on time, etc. What’s the problem?

She knows the rules, sorry no excuses are valid. She needs to turn off the phone before she enters the school grounds and not turn it on until she leaves. Kids managed logistics long before phones!

Surely the answer is that she doesn't do anything else that warrants a detention?

If she can't manage that then I can see the school's argument in not wanting to take a pupil overseas when they are unable to follow rules.

It depends what detentions are given for. Some schools do hand them out for petty reasons like forgetting pens or missing homework.

Giving her friend a detention because she hadn’t done her maths homework is completely reasonable.

Agreed, but banning them from an expensive school trip isn’t.

I don’t think that’s fair at all. I’d ask for a meeting with the head tbh to discuss this with her. These are children. Children notoriously mess up. They are not little robots. You can’t apply adult rules and expectations to them. Being banned from an expensive school trip for using her phones ( when not even in a lesson) or possibly forgetting homework is too severe.

I’d be really annoyed at this.

I would not want my daughter walking on egg shells for the rest of the school year, scared to death that any slight could lose her all her money that she has saved for. I think it’s awful school management, way too heavy handed and authoritarian.

Cottonwoolmouth - yes they are children but Year 11 so old enough to follow school rules. Giving homework in on time and no using your phone whilst are at school are basic rules and to be followed by year 7 let alone a year 11.

Op - you have no grounds to complain to the school.