Attending Church, purely to get to a certain school

[sleepydad3000]

They're aren't many things I feel so strongly about, but this issue is one of them. I am currently looking at schools for my daughter. I am a non religious person and my partner is a none practising Catholic, doesn't go to church at all anymore.

I personally think it's wrong on a moral level to exploit a church for 6 months or however long, just to get your child to a certain school. It's almost like, "Oh hi, yes thankyou, I've got what I needed, you'll never see me again!"

2 schools near me are both decent, 1 outstanding and 1 good (Ofsted ratings) interestingly enough, the NON Catholic school has the higher mark as of 2017.... just saying. Both schools are great in my view, religion aside. But I'd feel awful and wrong and like I was cheating or manipulating the system, just to get my girl to a certain school, and then waving bye bye to the church after, as I know for a fact, my partner and I have no intention of going to church afterwards.

Given I'm so silly, perhaps you could point that out for me please and for everyone else on the thread, although I think it is just us left now.

I answer your questions but you are in complete denial or refusal of the answers. You are beyond help, Margo!

I quoted from the document earlier in the thread. Are you really so dim that you cannot find the post that responds to the post you wrote

You are just being rude now.

Really rude.

I’ve been extraordinarily patient with you, Margo, but your outright refusal to take on board information that contradicts the misconception under which you labour is enough to try the patience of a saint (continuing the theme of the thread )

Well I know that booking.com don't dole out taxpayer money to run a public service and allow their customers to discriminate on religious grounds, which is all I need to know to know it's a crap analogy. As I have said before, it is nothing to do with property rights. No one's forcing them to accept this money. I agree, I don't even object so much to some schools having a faith based agenda as long as there is enough choice of those without, but they shouldn't be able to prioritise on faith grounds. No other public service can, and very few private ones.

Article 1 protocol 1 ECHR is a qualified right anyway

I am fundamentally opposed to faith schools but I attend church in the hope that it will get my child into the local CoE school. Yes I am a total hypocrite but what the fuck am I supposed to do? I am a midwife, my husband is in the fire service. We do not earn enough to even consider non-state options and the non faith schools where I live are all ‘needs improvement’ with 85% + English as a second language. Diversity is great but the time staff have to take to get most students up to a workable level of English is detrimental to the learning environment for all - all noted by Ofstead.

Yes I might go to all the effort and not even get a place for my child but I’ve been going since they were 1, have become involved in the church community (who I for the most part like), donate via standing order, help out with lifts for older members of the congregation & manage the crèche once a month. So it’s not totally one sided.

But essentially I’m just trying to get my child the best education I can within my means. I wish I didn’t have to do this but it doesn’t look like the system is going to change any time soon.

And as an aside I do send my DD to a school with no buildings. A nursery, anyway.

UndercoverAtheist “I am a midwife, my husband is in the fire service. We do not earn enough to even consider non-state options and the non faith schools where I live are all ‘needs improvement’ with 85% + English as a second language.”

Please - you are not a hypocrite. You are doing the very best you can for your child and for the greater good within the society in which you live and whose inconsistencies are not your fault or responsibility.

prh47bridge faith schools prioritise their own (whether they are CofE or Catholic) and most of them are massively oversubscribed, so effectively they turn away those not of their own faith.

You are not entirely correct.

RC schools prioritise their own absolutely. If they are heavily oversubscribed those not of the faith won't get places. In some areas RC schools are not oversubscribed with Catholics, in many areas they are.

CofE schools may prioritise their own (although many don't) but an increasing proportion allocate a some of their places on a non-faith basis, so, even if the school is massively oversubscribed (which some aren't), children who are not of the faith will get places.

This is shown very clearly in the statistics. 99.8% of places at RC schools are subject to prioritisation on religious grounds. For CofE schools that are in control of their own admissions policy, 68% of places are subject to such prioritisation.

VA schools make up less than half of the total number of faith schools

But they are the ones we are mainly talking about. For VC schools the LA is the admission authority, so the LA gets to decide whether or not to prioritise children on faith grounds. Around 75% of LAs do not prioritise on faith grounds for VC schools.

there is state funding with the voluntary aided schools possibly benefitting by 10% input from churches

Stick to VA schools as those are the ones we are primarily talking about. VA schools have to provide 10% of the funding for any capital works. Historically they had to provide more of the funding for capital works. They don't have to provide funding for running costs but a significant proportion do top up the funding they receive from the state.

Teachers are the most essential part of an education, not the buildings

Whilst that is true, if you stopped all faith schools from prioritising on faith grounds you would have to find land and buildings to replace all the Catholic schools, probably the schools of minor faiths and maybe some CofE schools. That would cost hundreds of billions of pounds. Whilst some countries do teach in primitive conditions, people in the UK expect more.

Feel free to continue to be rude to me Maria by not answering my questions and calling me DIM, SILLY and telling me how I would try the patience of a saint. This is a discussion forum and I have discussed politely, reasonably and provided evidence for my points. It only appears to be you who find me dim, silly and patience-wearing.

faith schools prioritise their own (whether they are CofE or Catholic) and most of them are massively oversubscribed, so effectively they turn away those not of their own faith.

That's a bit of a generalisation. Our large CofE school's admission policy states that people living within x miles are first priority, followed by siblings of pupils already attending, and only then, do regular church going come into it, on a points basis. So if you live in the immediate surrounding area, you don't need any "church" points at all, you're guaranteed a place.

you would have to find land and buildings to replace all the Catholic schools

Or (as in the case of a school known to me) you rent rooms around and about and bus students between them, because you cannot afford to buy land and build a campus.

How would you feel if your nearest NHS hospital announced it was now primarily for mass attending Catholics but a certain amount of other faiths and those with no faith could be treated there, if there was room.

Kazzyhoward, I'm glad to hear at least one faith school doesn't have religion highest on it's list of admissions criteria.

headinhands - that’s a false analogy. The hospital doesn’t belong to the Catholic Church.

Or (as in the case of a school known to me) you rent rooms around and about and bus students between them, because you cannot afford to buy land and build a campus

Parents might accept that from a new school, although even there I suspect they hope the situation will be temporary. But it is a costly way of doing things even then. And I seriously doubt parents would be so accepting of this if their child's school had closed and was standing empty due to government policy. However much you want to pretend otherwise, the reality is that doing something that would result in all the RC schools closing would be hugely expensive for the taxpayer.

headinhands - that’s a false analogy. The hospital doesn’t belong to the Catholic Church.

But it's my taxes funding it.

headinhands actually that is a fair analogy (no doubt I will be told I am dim, silly and patience-wearing for saying so).

When the NHS was created, hospitals had to be nationalised, where they hadn't previously been state owned. Most hospitals were what was known as voluntary, supported by philanthropy, churches, fees paid etc. You only have to think how many had St in front of their name, Bartholomew, Thomas's, Mary's etc to know that many of them had religious origins. Anyhow, the drive to create the NHS was such that somehow Aneurin Bevan’s NHS Acts brought the voluntary hospitals into public ownership. Where there is a will there is a way!

But it's my taxes funding it.

Your taxes are funding the whole of the NHS. Your taxes are not funding the whole of the faith school.

Where there is a will there is a way!

No - where there is money there is a way.

prh47bridge - I totally agree. The rented rooms/bus scenario is extremely unpopular with parents and only sustainable in very exceptional circumstances (highly inefficient local market for schools).

I believe the National Health Service Act of 1946 transferred hospitals to the Government of the day - "The existing premises and equipment of voluntary and public hospitals are transferred to the Minister under the Bill".

It was in places more complex than that - but it happened and without bankrupting the country!