If you could choose would you opt for private or state schools?

[sportyspice]

It's a while before dd1 goes to school but i can't decide which route to take. It is going to cost a heck of alot of money from start to finish to educate both dd's privately but we don't know whether to take each year as it comes and see how it goes. We can afford to do the junior school bit very comfortably but aren't sure about how feasible the late secondary school years will be..would you just do what you can or would you not proceed for fear of having to then integrate the children into a state school having already had private education and be classed as snobs? Also is it unfair to proceed with a private education if you can't also provide the 10 horses, 5 mansions etc to go with it? are they likely to be excluded by friends for being the "poorer" ones or do other couples scrimp and save to afford this? bit rambly i know but honest advice please

Good luck with the thread!!! There is a very long and very heated private v state thread from last year on MN somewhere!!!

Seriously though, I work in a state school as a teacher and have had DD's name down for a private prep school since she was 1. There were many reasons for this choice at the time. I do think it needs to be a long term decision if possible personally as the transition between the two can be quite difficult and stressful.

Have you been to see some schools - state and private - to have a look around? That might be a good starting point.

Oh god here we go again!!

Sorry sportyspice but watch out for this topic it can get very heated.

I would say if you can afford it save the money for secondary education and then send her to a good state primary - you can always get additional tuition if the school or she is lacking in any key areas.

Cor blimey, start a controversial subject, why don't you?
Ok, I just believe in State schools, for 2 many reasons to list. So would always try very very hard to keep my kids in there. But would put my kids in private if I thought that was absolutely the only way to do right by them - -principles secondary to individual circumstances & needs.

As I'm going to be posting in the next few weeks about advice on private schools, I thought I'd tell you our situation.

I do believe in state schools, but we don't have an address in the UK yet, so can't apply. I could wait until we moved and then find a school, but for my own and my son's sanity (he will need to know where he's going before he gets there), I'm not going to do that. Plus, because of the application procedure and lack of catchment areas in the places we are looking, he could end up at a terrible school far away.

As people have suggested, have a look around the schools near you. Decide which would be best for your son and go there, if it's not a hardship. I would be very unwilling to make my sons' (I have two, one in school, one not yet -- that's for the apostrophe police) education a major worry in our finances.

OH! didn't even think about this conversation possibly causing a heated debate! just was hoping for honest open advice on an issue that is concerning me at the moe. Will understand if no-one wishes to commit an opinion.

Thought it might be worth you looking at some of the other related threads: thinking of sending ds to a private school - advise needed please!!!!!

We haven't had a state vs private debate for a while

Idependant Schools-pros+cons???????

Single sex or co-ed?

Solving the crisis in state education

private or state: how did you decide?

State versus independent

DD2 had a very good friend at primary school (state) who went to private (not public) school when she didn't pass the grammar exam...they remained good friends for 2 or 3 years after that and I think the slipping of friendship was more down to DD2 (who can be lazy socially) than her friend....they still bump into each other casually around town, and get on fine, but were really good friends and I miss that even if she doesn't!

DD2 subsequently also became quite good friends with a girl from the same private school, who left it to come to the local 6th form college, who actually isn't nearly as affluent as the original friend - as far as ponies, mansions etc are concerned it probably depends which part of the country you live in and what the local state schools are like.

Not quite sure what I'm trying to say except maybe you should consider state primary and save your resources for private secondary, rather than the other way round!

Right Sportyspice. Agree with CD that if you don't want to send dd to private school all the way through it is better to save the money for secondary education. It will be easier for you/a tutor to make up any lost ground at primary than secondary level. In some ways if your DD wants to do a popular course at uni she may be better off at a state school - there are some views that children at private schools are discriminated against on university admission.

I went to a private school on a full assisted place, and felt out of my depth socially and financially - but my position would be different to DDs - I was brought up by a single mum on benefits, so a different position to your children. I wouldn't say that children at private schools exclude "poorer" children per se. The exact number of "poorer" children would vary from private school to private school. You may want to look at a private school that provides a lot of bursaries - firstly from your point of view, you might qualify for one, and also that will mean a better social mix.

As for standards - not all private schools were created equal - you would need to look at the facilities and league tables - some private schools are worse academically than the better state schools in the area.

Hulababy's right, go and look at your local schools - they might be very good. Private education can limit children; I was educated in both sectors and was appalled at the ignorance of some of my peers in the independent school. One girl honestly believed that aparheid was right 'because black people in S Africa go around with bones through their noses'...
Don't assume that independent schools are necessarily better than state. There are some very bad independent schools out there, and it's easier for them to cover it up. There are also some excellent independent schools ? apart from the naivety of a minority of my classmates I loved mine. On balance, I'd go for a good state primary and then think again once secondary school comes into view. Much easier to transfer from state to private than the other way round; and if you are in a part of the country where the local schools are 'challenging' then I get the impression that it's the secondary schools that have the real problem, not primaries. If your local state secondaries are duff when your dd1 is 11, then she'll get some real value from a good independent school and have the broader outlook and social skills that some of the children I knew, who had been privately educated since kindergarten, lacked.

I haven't heard anything bad about the local state schools and hadn't even considered private education until dh said we could look into it and on doing so found a tremendous difference in class sizes which i believe could alter a childs ability to learn. I have no desire to start any form of heated debate but as previously mentioned really don't have any idea about what to do and hope for more helpful comments such as previously added by others.

hi sportyspice
My dd is starting at private school on Tuesday. I had this discuassion on mumsnet last year and got some great advice.
I visited state and private and the biggest difference i found was class size. The state school i visited was lovely but dp and i did debate for a long time before we made our decision.
The way i see it now, if she gets on well at the nursery there then we'll get her into reception and hopefully follow on from there.
If we're not happy with it from the nursery year then we haven't burnt our bridges and we can look at the state reception.
I too was very worried about her being classed a snob but then i also thought it could work the other way. When i was growing up i lived in a 'nice' house. All my class and my sisters called us the poshies!! We live in a nice house now (but no horses),and i wouldn't like the reverse snobbery thing for dd IYSWIM!!!
Anyway, will follow this thread but it's a really hard decision so good luck with it.
I'm already dreading leaving her on Tuesday and can't beleive it's really here

Oh, and unless you are planning to send dd to Cheltenham or Rodean (sp?) then don't worry about the financial background ? there are plenty of independent schools with a mix of pupils, some wealthy, some with families who work very hard to afford the fees. Something you can get a feel for when you visit the place ? if you arrive at drop-off or pick-up time look at the cars, for instance.

sportyspice- I'm a bit reverse to this probably. Both dh and I were privately educated from age 9. We both assumed we would send our children private. DS1 was accepted at a private school- when whoops it became apparent he was autistic and he needed more support than could be provided in a private school not that any would have him anyway. So he goes to a local primary school. We are both really pleased with the school and ds2 will be going there (number 3 as well I guess). I was pleasantly surprised with how good the state school was. However I am not in London so had a real choice of State schools (the catchment one probably wouldn't have worked).

Now secondary schools are a different matter. God knows where ds1 will go, but unless ds2 and number 3 get into the one good one in the city we will pay private.

In your shoes- if you have a choice, have a look at both and see what sort of options you have in your area.

Ask about teaching assistants etc though as well - although ds1's class has 29 children in it- there isn't that much they do as a whole class. A lot of the work is carried out in small groups of about 5 children.

jimjams, I went eek!! at your message regarding state secondaries in your area. One of the main reasons we're planning on moving down your way is so that ds1 can go to a decent state secondary. I'n thinking of the nearby village community colleges - do they have a bad reputation?

Sportyspice, in answer to your original question, 2 of my kids went to private schools (on Assisted Places). DD went to state juniors, then independent secondary & DS2 went to independent juniors then state secondary.

It really depends what the schools near you are like. Where are you?

DD was very happy at her school. Her friends were very well heeled but not snobby. They used to sub her when they all went out, but not in a nasty way. The car park was full of really ancient cars- people chose to spend money on education & not cars & holidays! (This was a school with 20% bursary/scholarship kids).

DS2 was pushed at his school, in a way he wouldn't have been in the state system. He also had access to a lot of facilities & extras, & helpfully for us we could leave him at school early & pick up late plus had the option of occasional boarding (great when DH & I went off to Italy for a week!). He had no problems at all when he transferred to a State Grammar school- not classed as a snob. We wanted him to get through the 11+ & knew he wouldn't get there from his old primary school (long story).

If your local secondarys are good, send them to private primary then move them (lots of people at DSs school did this). Otherwise send them to state primary & move them at 11. There may be an entrance test- admittance may not be guaranteed.

I teach in a private school and if I can I will educate my children privaelty - simply for small class sizes, sports facilites and extra-curricula stuff. But there are some children at my school who are snobby and others who are not -depends on the parents. Also if your child has SEN (except g and t) then I think the state system generally does this better.

However, if I can't afford it then I am certain the quality of education is no different in a state school and prehaps they can be more modern in their approach to education. I can also make sure my dd does lots of things out of school which would make up for lack of extra-curricula things at her school.

Also don't forget the hidden extra's at private school - uniform, lunches, trips (lots of them and expensive!), sports equipment etc.

Tigermoth- if you move to Ivybridge you would be in a different LEA to us. I was only talking about our LEA which tends to have extremes. If ds2 ds3 got into the grammar school they would have a really excellent education, but our catchment secondary is dreadful (although one we're just outside of the catchment area is quite good).

I went to that secondary school!

Sportyspice : Havnt read the rest of this thread but here is my experience:
Decided to educate our two boys privately (junior) but we dont want to continue it through secondary unless we really have to. We do struggle to afford it but we think we are giving the boys the best start. We are probably in the bracket of (poorer end) compared to others at the school and it does make me a bit sick sometimes at the amount of money people throw around. The first year ds1 was at the school and we visited other peoples homes i felt like i was visiting houses out of a guide called "the biggest and most expensive houses in Kent" book.!! Sometimes i would get home and cry and think "i will never be able to invite any of DS's friends round!" Now i have found that there are others who are just like me and you realise that the richer ones are not necessarily judging you anyway ... they are more interested in having friends at the school ... this said .. part of me wishes we had never gone down this route because i do rather resent at times the "second Mortgage" we pay out each month. Sometimes i feel that a child is going to be whatever they are going to be whatever school they go to....

We are really lucky in the fact that our borough has really good schools. Infact there are children in dd's language unit that have come from private schools as they were not meeting the childs needs as well as the unit could.

My boys go to a private school in Devon and are very happy there. Until we moved, they went to their local primary school and were generally happy there too.

The main differences that I can see is that almost immediately at their new school, both of my son's were assessed academically and found to be off the scale in one area and reassuringly normal in all others. At their state primary, I was constantly being told that they were not quite keeping up in maths.

The truth of the matter is that they are completely on track for their age groups at maths and at least 5 years ahead in their literacy work. Private schools can support the whole child and schedule their work specifically for each child. The primary school was trying to get the boys maths up to the same level as their literacy to get amazing SATS results which was totally unrealistic and unfair. The children were very demotivated in maths as a result

Anyway, we had a choice of 2 local private schools and had 'taster' days at both. One was very grand in a faded gentry style. The other was more like a normal school in the juniors with the boys crossing the road at 11 to the grander senior school.

The big difference that I noticed was that the second school had far more older cars and wellie boots whilst the first school had lots of new cars and gucci boots at home-time. I had a good chat to someone who worked at the second school and she confirmed that many more working people used the second school whilst the first school was more old money-ish.

We have already had playdates over the summer with children from the school we chose (wellie boot not Gucci boot) and the kids have all been reassuringly normal!

We have an average income for our area but I am very good at budgeting, the fees for two are large but completely do-able. I would recommend having a savings account of at least a years fees before you start though.

In answer ro the original question, I would opt for state even if I had mansions and swimming pools coming out of my ears. The only thing that would make me go private would be if there turned out to be a problem with the local state school (but I would definately send dd there first - it's much easier for a child to move from a state to a private school than vice versa).

Reasons too many to list, but briefly:

1. exams aren't everything.
2. there's a lot to be said for the broad social mix you get at state schools.
3. other parents do scrimp and save, yes, but there is a certain amount of bullying to do with money at some private schools.
4. Study after study has shown that the best predictor of exam success of any individual pupil is the level of education of the parents, not the school.

I'd give more reasons, but I'd be in danger of sounding like a pompous, self-righteous old cow. Also I was a scholarship girl to a private school. Can you tell?

which secondary school hercules? Was that in reply to my message? Did you go to the same secondary school as me???

I've opted to keep mine out of the school system altogether and educate them myself. Nothing to do with the question you asked (well, not much) but worth knowing it's an option, maybe?