If you could choose would you opt for private or state schools?

[sportyspice]

It's a while before dd1 goes to school but i can't decide which route to take. It is going to cost a heck of alot of money from start to finish to educate both dd's privately but we don't know whether to take each year as it comes and see how it goes. We can afford to do the junior school bit very comfortably but aren't sure about how feasible the late secondary school years will be..would you just do what you can or would you not proceed for fear of having to then integrate the children into a state school having already had private education and be classed as snobs? Also is it unfair to proceed with a private education if you can't also provide the 10 horses, 5 mansions etc to go with it? are they likely to be excluded by friends for being the "poorer" ones or do other couples scrimp and save to afford this? bit rambly i know but honest advice please

Humph! Call me cynical, but this seems to be the second controversial thread which SportySpice has started and not revisited (OK - she has once, early on). The other one was on the Relationships one, when she wanted to know how much we alldid for our DH/DP....mmmm...

Goodkate - which school did you choose?? I live in the same area.

interesting article about this here

She also says 'And speak nice' Shouldn't that be 'niceLY'?

I may regret this and I haven't even remotely read the thread, just the title, but I so do think that actually, if we ALL invested in STATE education it (meaning all of it, education in general) would be better, it would, partly because we would all have some investment in it. Which we don't atm.

Oh, and I can choose, and I've opted for state. Because I believe in it.

I always thought the same WWW, I used to come home from a hard stressful day teaching in a London comp,which was tough and at times violent, thinking that if politicians and members of the establishment had to use the state system it would be better. I always swore that when I had children they would be educated in the state system. But then I had a daughter who I loved more than anything and whom I wanted the best for. I remembered my own state education and how I struggled at university as I just hadn't been educated to the standard of those around me. I can remember a tutor at uni telling me that i wasn't thick just uneducated!

So unfortunately my morals and principles have been thrown out of the window and with many regrets my daughter will start prep school next year.

This is not a decision i am 100% happy with for many reasons, not least the half hour drive ( rather than a fifteen minute walk to the local primary) as I wish my daughter to have a catholic education and all the local private schools are non denominational. But i want my daughter to have all the advantages and confidence I never had and I never ever want her to experience the state system that I witnessed as a teacher. My principles are important and for that reason i will continue to work in the state sector, but my daughter's eduacation is even more so.

I have now been back at school 3 days this week - comp, special measures, 28% GCSE grade pass rate, and now a reducing roll numbers. Behaviour is makor issue and holding back lots of classes. Teachers have been reguarly verbally abused, some physically. We have over 1/3 of teaching staff who are new this year - lots left last summer. I did resign but have agreed to do 2 days a week for them as they could not replace the ICT staff - only 2 applicated for 2 posts, including HoD, both not suitable at all. So no HoD for ICT, or for 2 other departments. Several long term supply teachers here. Parental involvemnet is limited. Often school sanctions are not supported by parents. Parent's evenings get less than a 40% uptake. I could go on....

So I have to agree - some bits of the state sector are not marvellous at all. And for some schools it'll take a long time to get them back on track too.

I know some people aren't so fortunate as to have a choice but, GIVEN A CHOICE, would I send my child there?

NO! Very simply. Our catchement primary where we live is similar in standard to the school I now teach out. DD is not going there - for many reasons. She is currently on the list for a private prep school. However our apartment is on the market and she may go to state IF (and only if) we manage to move to a house with a good catchment school. I am lucky that I have that choice I know, but I don't believe that people with tht option and who choose to follow that option should be made to feel bad and to have to justify it.

after reading Hulababy's description if her state secondary school, please someone tell me that a secondary school with a 30% approx GCSE pass rate CAN be a satisfactory environment for my son to learn in. And that a majority of pupils achieve their potential. Please!! I don't just mean the bright, hard working tiny minority, I mean the average child.

All the nearby state secondaries in my own borough (in London) achieve around a 30% pass rate. The national average is around 50%. The state commuity college I would love son to go to (in Devon when we move there) achieves around 70% and has a very good reputation.

So would I send my son to a state school by choice? at the moment that answer depends on what area of the uk you are talking about. No for London, yes for Devon.

Tigermoth - yes it can, don't worry. I think you'd know if the school was bad. This school was in serious weaknesses and is now in special measures. There are issues with almost all aspects of the school, although pupil behaviour and management were two of the big problems. Teaching and learning were criticised too due to a significant number of pupils with poor behaviour. The exam rate is not the only thing to consider at all. You need to look round the school and talk to staff, children and parents who go there. Have a look at the school (just wander by) at start or finish times, break and lunch times. What does it look and sound like? I think you can get a very good idea just be having a look at a school, rather than looking at the pass rate. Also look at the Value Added scores (still a bit weak at the moment but a little indicator) - are the kids being improved?

I didn't mean to worry you - just first day back of teaching after the holidays...

Well that's a bit more reassuring hulababy - thanks!

As my son's in Year six, we're about to embark on a round of secondary school open days, so hopefully I'll get a clearer idea about the schools then. I might also hover around at the gates in the morning to see how things look. I see that some of the schools are oversubscribed and others aren't, even if they have similar positions on the league tables, so I guess that gives another perspective.

I would say no for an average child to achieve potential in a school with results like that.

Yes, for Devon. Is it Kevics?

eek hercules, you've worried me all over again!

no, not Kevics. I'm thinking of Ivybridge or Kingsbridge community colleges.

My son is also sitting the 11+ in our neighbouring borough up here, so he may with luck get to a grammar school.

What about Torquay grammer?

What about Torquay grammer?

Just saw your 1A post on the other thread Tigermoth, well done ds1 (and you for chivvying him along). Fantastic news.

thanks marina, I think his teachers deserve a big thank you from me.

Hercules, Torquy grammar is a possibilty, if he passes his 11+. But if the community colleges are as good as I've heard, and much nearer to where were end up living, then I don't think we'll fuss to much about getting him into a grammar school. Still worrying about your previous message, though...

Also worried about the lack of responses to my question: Someone tell me they have sent their not exceptionally gifted and talented child to a state secondary where GCSE results are well under the national average, and feel happy their child's needs are being fully met.

tigermoth - it is hard to answer as it really depends on the individual school. You need to know if the set children, and on what basis. What is their discipline policy and is is kept too - are the disruptive kids dealt with, or allowed to get away with disrupting the class. What are the class sizes in the different sets? And what is the reason for their 30% pass rate?

Have you looked at recent OFSTED reports, etc? They can give you an idea of what the LEAs think of them and whether they are providing good value of education.

I have to admit that I would not be particularly happy with my child at a school where the pass rate is 30%, unless there were very particular reasons why. Sorry, no the answer you would want to hear though maybe.

Have a look at several schools in the area and try and get a feel for them.

tigermouth, our local comp has bout 35% of pupils getting 5 A-C grades (its similar to hulababy`s school) & to be honest, its b*y awful. they also take all the kids excluded from other schools. i would home educate before id send my children there. that is why i plan to move asap for much better schools.

well, I'll be seeing several local secondary schools in the next few weeks. I've ploughed through some oftsted reports as well. I find it difficult to put the comments into context, to see when a criticism is mild or serious. All the schools seem to be at the same level. No huge dips or highs. Anyway I will reserve judgement till I've seen the schools, and even then I don't expect to be sure about things.

sorry to go off on a tangent in this state v private debate

Hulababy - isn't Silverdale supposed to be a good state school in Sheffield??

Tigermoth, I would send a child of mine to my current school. We were very proud of getting 33% this year. The teaching is very good because, quite simply, you have to be good otherwise you wouldn't be able to face coming back! We are fully staffed (overstaffed, actually, as 3 teachers are about to go on maternity leave and we always get an overlap as continuity of teachers is so important to our children). The school has an excellent reputation for inclusion which means that, yes, we do have students excluded from other schools. We have 9 different SEN type departments, so every need is met. And this year, finally, we have an initiative for targeting the "average" student, who does not always get involved in our special provision (although no-one can avoid benefitting in some way from it). The other children ds would meet at a school like mine would certainly not be the type he would meet in our social circle, but then I felt quite sick that until I came to this school 5 years ago, I hadn't really got a clue about the world I live in. Maybe it would have been better to have learnt that before I was 25!

bobs - yes, Silverdale is THE state school in Sheffield IYSWIM - normally has pass rates of high 70s/low-mid 80s. Notree Dame is high up there too. We are trying to ensure that when we move we stay in the Silverdale catchement.

Do you know Sheffield then?