Judging a school by the number of children having free school meals

[speedymama]

I was speaking to another mother at the music toddler group my 3yo DTS attend and asked her advice about state schools in the area as she has lived in the area all her life. I have already carried out my own preliminary research and have three that I will be listing on my preference form towards the end of the year.

I mentioned them to her and one of them she dismissed because it tends to take a number of children from a more socially deprived area and consequently, a number of them have free school meals.

Her comments left me speechless because the school has very good Ofsted reports, other mothers that I know who send their children there, rate it highly and their SAT results are excellent (high 80%, low 90% region).

The thing that really upset me was her comment about the free school meals. My DB lost is job two years ago, is still struggling to find a well paid job and his 3 DC receive free school meals.

Since when did receiving free school meals equate to being a social pariah and undesirable? I would have thought that the success of the school demonstrated the commitment of the parents to their DC's education, despite their lower social status.

I think the woman is a snob and will avoid her in future.

LOL bubblepop -what a prat.

dd has free school meals,is top of the class and hopes to get a scholarship to a private school
So i dont get this free school meals=failure thing

notasheep - don't worry, neither does anyone else , with half a brain

I'm uncomfortable with current terms like 'social deprivation.' It implies, very strongly, that if you don't have much cash, you are also socially inadequate; as though the two go together, hand in hand.

I had no idea that people looked at this sort of thing when choosing schools.

Worrying, ain't it?

nice to have half a brain

Yes, but there's a very important basic issue in here we mustn't lose sight of. If you speak to any teachers who have worked in both systems as my chdlren's father has including in bad state comps the principal difference is the low level of constant disruption in class in some of the not so good state schools. You only have to read some teachers' articles about that topic to know it goes on and it just does not exist to teh same except in the better academic private schools. Of course there are pranks etc but that is not the same issue as in class after class John Smith making his life's aim to destroy the ability of others around him to concentrate.

But this is primary school, not secondary school. The Ofsted report is excellent and the parents rate it highly. So why does the fact that some of the children have to have FSM make it less desirable in the eyes of some?

But the school the OP refers to is a good state school. She specifically makes that point. It is you making the connection here between classroom disruption and free school meals

I was visiting my local state school last year, interviewing some teachers for an article I was writing, and had a chance to have a good look around the school, hear the school choir, and the school brassband, the atmosphere was brilliant, the interaction between the teachers great, and I also got to speak to one of the governors. It was very enlightening. This school, according to ofstead has great results on the league tables, more than average "statement of educational special needs" and above average free school meals. This school is sandwiched between multi million villas and a large council estate. Many of the children who attend the school do not speak any english when they start Reception, they are children of refugees, asylum seekers etc housed on the estate. Including this particular statistic has no meaning, I think. It has no bearing on the childrens ability to learn and thrive.

Oblomov: Your LEA says that the priority criteria are "Medical or SEN, or children in the care of the council". That is completely different from 'the disruptive and expelled'.

I don't think that it is a FSM=failure. But whilst primary age children will have a fair amount of common at school regardless of their background, outside of school there can be huge differences, and the odd one out factor can be an issue at both ends of the spectrum. I went to a primary school in London that was specifically built to deal with a sudden surge in immigrants, who at that stage inevitably were amongst the socially deprived (we were hugely envious of one girl whose father became the onsite caretaker of a newly built concil estate - she was one of the few who lived in a house with a bathroom). I ended up on a full scholarship to an independent school mixing with girls who came out with gems such as "doesn't every family have at least one car".

Our children have a different problem: ds2's best friend is a lovely boy, but my friendship with his mum went horribly wrong when he came back for a playdate. She couldn't get past the fact that our playroom was bigger than her flat - a fact that has been repeated ad nauseum at the playgroup that they go to. She now refuses to let him round for playdates, and he wasn't even allowed to come to ds2's birthday party. "Snobbery" can work both ways ime.

So yes, in our current situation I would have some concerns about the dcs going to a school with 60+% FSM, in the same way as I would have concerns if they was going to a school where they were the only black children. It wouldn't be the deciding factor, but I don't think that it is entirely fair to put a 5 year old into a situation where they are the odd ones out.

Sadly, I think attitudes like that other mother's are hardened by essentially ghetto-ising children at a young age.

"But this is primary school, not secondary school. The Ofsted report is excellent and the parents rate it highly. So why does the fact that some of the children have to have FSM make it less desirable in the eyes of some? "

Shall I be blunt?

But some people are so snobbish, and so arrogant, that they care a lot about the peers of their children and the type of parent they will hobnob with for the next foreseable future. In my opinion, these people should probably consider private school and not state school, if they cannot bear the thought of being around normal people.

Ladymuck-your post suggests that children who have free school meals are deprived,our circumstances are dp with a degree but no job.
My weekly newspaper is The Sunday Times

Ladymuck, fair point. This is one reason why I dont want to send my kids to private school, I dont want them to feel bad about what we have and compare themselves to what others have. We are by no means bad off, but we are not so well of as some in private school. And certainly not as well off as some of my friends. One of my friends has an issue with her child as he is saying stuff like: "what? you mean you dont have a swimming pool?" and "why is your house so small?", and "you only have ONE house?" In his private school this is not a problem, as he is not the richest of his peers, just average.

I'd be very surprised indeed if a child not on FSM was the odd one out, or even in a minority small enough to be a worry.

As my dh's school doesn't have a high number of pupils with FSM then they get little extra funding from the Council and as the County Council is also considered to be affluent they get very little funding from central Government - in fact Manchester pupils get nearly twice as much money per head as his school - as a consequence the fabric of the building is dire - it is literally falling apart.

Take from that what you will.

Notasheep, no I don't think that I have implied that FSM=deprived. But it does imply low income. Few familes have huge capital assets yet receive FSM I believe? Ds2 has effectively been ostracized for the size of his playroom, not for what newspaper I read.

Dinosaur - the FSM children won't be in a minority at your school, but what about the child who has a tennis court and a swimming pool in their back garden?

Blu I was quoting the sunday papers - who listed the children in B&H who are given higher priority."disruptive and expelled"
I stupidly did not realise that this only applied to Brightons secondaries - I thought it was primary and secondary - but believe me I can get a quote if you need - I am only quoting wahat he papers said -yeah right - I know how that sounds.

At DS's (very over-subscribed) school, there is 33% FSM, 18% SEN and 26% ESOL.

I was at school amongst swimmimg pool owners, easter holiday Ski-ers and all manner of other things that were unimaginable in my family, with a bit of input from adults we learned to get along. My nephew and neice are now by far the 'poshest' kids in their school, and i think sometimes it is an issue, but they have dealt with it. Dealing with a certain amount of negotiation over difference is vital, isn't it?

Oblomov - exactly - a highly sensationalised, and lazy, link between children with SEN and 'disruption'. But, I see now - it was headline news partly because of claims like 'disruptive and expeled'.