Judging a school by the number of children having free school meals

[speedymama]

I was speaking to another mother at the music toddler group my 3yo DTS attend and asked her advice about state schools in the area as she has lived in the area all her life. I have already carried out my own preliminary research and have three that I will be listing on my preference form towards the end of the year.

I mentioned them to her and one of them she dismissed because it tends to take a number of children from a more socially deprived area and consequently, a number of them have free school meals.

Her comments left me speechless because the school has very good Ofsted reports, other mothers that I know who send their children there, rate it highly and their SAT results are excellent (high 80%, low 90% region).

The thing that really upset me was her comment about the free school meals. My DB lost is job two years ago, is still struggling to find a well paid job and his 3 DC receive free school meals.

Since when did receiving free school meals equate to being a social pariah and undesirable? I would have thought that the success of the school demonstrated the commitment of the parents to their DC's education, despite their lower social status.

I think the woman is a snob and will avoid her in future.

She has mentioned immigrants in past. Considering that I am black (parents are from Jamaica) what did she expect me to say?

Actually, ladies, I think you'll find that FSMs are an excellent indicator of how much EXTRA money a school is receiving from the state.
Our school is constantly BEGGING parents who qualify to sign up for FSMs, so it can get the money.
FSMs can often be a GOOD thing for the school.

She should be paying fees if those are her views!

From September 2007, all local authorities are required to have the above in post. This person helps with all aspects of helping parents to choose the right school for their child based upon their own and their family requirements. This will apply to primary school, secondary schools and also to children moving into an area from away. The funding for this has come from central government and is a STATUTORY RESPONSIBIITY of every local authority in England.

The advisor will also be able to liaise to arrange any transport that may be needed and also with the Inclusion section should a child have additional needs.

Good luck and don't let other people push you around - for my part I find that a good mixture of children is one of the best ways of helping ensure that your children remain open-minded, sociable and happy.

Agree with Xenia - (god, did I just type that) Why has she lowered herself to attend speedy's toddler group ? She should be busy checking out little Tarquin's privae school opportunities.

NE, having a load of disruptive children in a secondary school who in the old days would have been suspended which is what inclusino to me means who provide low level disruption in every class and stop the good children learning is never going to be good system. One reason I pay.

The trouble is Xenia, is that private schools exclude disruptive pupils who often end up in the state system. So if private schools don't want them and state schools did not take them, what would happen to them? Somebody has to take responsibility for these pupils and try to help them turn their lives around. It's clear that most private schools are not interested in doing this so the state schools have to do it.

Probably because he went to a private school ff?... joke...

Where do they go? As they used to go - special schools for disruptive pupils. It is the one or two in the class who swear, are violent etc which often cause the problem and if you could remove those so children are working in class then you really help things for the others. I pay to segregate my children from those types of problems and it's money well spent. But that has nothing to do with free school meals. In fact if we could get children forced to have the school lunch like my children's private prep school does and no sweets allowed in school you'd have better behaved chidlren.

Everything Hallgerda said - including her about turn to ignore the silly woman!

And re Xenia's comments...I went to a school which was direct rgant (half selective fee-payoing, half LEA scholarships - top 11 plus passes)...and there was plenty of disruptive behaviour, people being sent out, expelled, outbursts in class, tantrums, inventive forms of non-co-operation and sabotage (washing up liquid down drains in HE room, causing fountains of bubbles through ou t the building, candle wax rubbed over blackboards, lolly-sticks in ventilation fans to mae a racket, deliberate 'accidental' noxious fumes in labs...all with the intention of disrupting class and getting out of it all for a while. And illegal drugs, sneaking out into the park for (somethimes) sexual activty with boys from the v posh boys public school over the road.

And I bet this wasn't the only private-style school where this sort of thing goes on. It was in the school's interest not to make a big thing of it, of course.

lol at xenia thinking her children are being segregated from any disruptive behaviour

as if there isn't any in private schools

i don't want common children influencing my rory tabitha and bastian ( the tiplets i breastfed whilst working 65 hour weeks). thats why i pay. i can afford to becuase i work hard and the rest of you are lazy plebs.

my children will influence this country - your children will merely be subservient within it.

lol

ROFL

No one wants a disruptive child in the class with their child. I am objecting to disruptive children being allocated BEFORE other'normal' children, as Brighton is now doing.
This is just the world gone mad.
No one is denying that places have to found for disruptive children. But over and beyond 'normal' children ? What ????

Trust your own instincts - if you like the atmosphere, the staff are open and welcoming, the Head is approachable, etc. then your DTs will be fine.

SATs results are only part of the story and depend so much on that year's cohort. We've been to two primary schools and will soon be going to a third (moves with job) and have learnt that the results can be very misleading in terms of what you want from a school.

With regard to FSM I think the LEA use this when looking at the contextual value added scores for schools as it gives an idea (apparently) of the socioeconomic mix of the school. The CVA looks at value added in comparison with similar schools so similar sizes, etc. I am a governor and fairly sure that this is how it was explained in one of our meetings - can't find my notes to be absolutely confident.

Oblomov - I am in Brighton too. What is this policy you are talking about? Is it new? I know children with SN get priority in schgool admissions over everyone else (fine with me), and this can include children with EBD, but is this something more?
I am usually quite with it in terms of B&H goings on, and now I feel in the dark lol!

I may be mistaken katepool, but I thought it was headline news. Place being allocated by computer. Brighton and hove being split into 6 areas, people protestinf that their child would have to take the bus from SW to Ne, to go to the school they had been allocated. Loss of community. Plus, children who: expelled; disruptive; ethnic minority; free meals; all placed as a priority above joe average. Trial to be expanded across many places in near future.

Ah, Oblomov, got you...
Secondary school admissions...Huge hot potato. I have a big issue with children not being able to go to their local school, and the fact is that B&H has some ok schools, but a few really poor ones, so the local schools idea at the moment only suit those who live near a decent one.

What Bton needs is not tinkering with catchments so much, as more investment and links between good and poor schools to raise standards, so everyone is happy for their child to go to their local school.

I wasn't sure much else had changed in terms of admissions though - the good schools have always 'had' to take those excluded from elsewhere. I am not sure that ethnicity has any relevance, nor in fact free school meals. Obviously in terms of appeals, people will use whatever grounds they think will sway the appeals panel. It sounds a bit like scaremongering to me to suggest that 'joe public' is getting a raw deal?

Having said that, I am very much in favour of specific schools catering for EBD children as I think the impact they have on joe public can be detrimental to their education. Whether other children are travellers, ESL, or on free school meals doesn't impact on others surely?

Aside from the catchment issue,

By the sounds of it, her children won't go to the school you choose so you won't have to go out of your way to avoid her. Good thing too by the sound of it.

Urgh, that woman sounds awful and definately like a snob and obviously never been in need of help or anything....
I think the Ofsted report does count more then the amount of free schoolmeals given out.
There is another point to factor in, often school in such areas do receive more help, which is a positive thing.

I think that schools use the number of pupils in receipt of free meals as an indication of social deprivation in an area. I know they always include it when they are giving out stats re the school. Meaningless to me, or to anyone who is open-minded and well-intentioned about the school.

I think that it should be the very last thing you consider.

ooh, this type of attitude reminds me of something i overheard on one of my first ever parents evenings with ds2. parents waiting to see teacher, a father says to a mother, "oh i think this is quite a good school, theyre certainly does'nt seem to be many single mothers around" . needless to say i have given the lah di dah chap a very wide berth ever since....