Can you be a leftie and use private schools? Are people prejudiced against the privately educated?

[SpoonsAndForks]

I've always been into equality of opportunity and on that basis, think that it's wrong that our country allows private schools.

But then my son's state primary went into special measures and I pulled him out and put him into private school. Now he's being offered a really great scholarship to stay on and I'm considering going private all the way. So I'd rather private schools didn't exist but now they do, yes I'd like my child to benefit from them.

I came across this book yesterday - www.amazon.co.uk/Posh-Boys-English-Schools-Britain/dp/1786073838/?tag=mumsnetforum-21 - the intro to the book sets out the 'public schoolboy' as the most horrible creature, misogynistic, egotistical, generally a posh hawhawhaw uncaring horror (usually a nasty MP). Yet the intro also sets out some interesting statistics about those in top jobs always being from private school (which makes me want to give my child that opportunity). But makes me sick at the thought of educating my child into a guffawing posh MP.

I'm keen to explore:

• whether you can sit politically to the left and square it with yourself if you use a private school
• whether children who go to private schools will experience judgement and prejudice against them
• whether children who go to private schools are all at risk of turning into posh uncaring brash misogynistic MP types.

My kids go to a very leafy primary, where a significant number of parents would have the option of private school. The idea that they choose state school in order that their children share a level playing field with the rest of society is laughable. They do it so they have the maximum possible disposable income to give their children as many other advantages as they can (the 'cultural capital' discussed above, plus house deposits and inheritance later). They are often to be heard complaining about the behaviour of the less MC children in the school and they do all they can to ensure that their children always make it into the netball team, have a lead role in the school play etc. So to me, the idea that everyone who chooses state is doing so for noble reasons is rubbish - for parents like this, it's simply a carefully calculated decision of how to secure the best overall influence for their child. If the school was to start under-performing generally, or if they felt their child was being let down in any way, they would be off to private school in a heartbeat.

OP, I'm currently trying to make the same decision as you. Yes, I do recognise my own hypocrisy, but equally I don't think it's entirely straightforward. In my area, I actually feel better about going private because a lot of the local state GS are very good, so I don't think I'm buying a far better education than those around me - I have no illusions that my children are going to end up with wildly different academic outcomes than if they went state. For me, it's other factors that are colouring my choice. If my children go to a state school, it will almost certainly be either a single sex grammar or a church secondary modern - and I feel quite strongly that I would like them to have a secular and co-ed education. These are things I believe in, just as I believe in excellent education and healthcare for all.

But I am under no illusions about the fairness of the system. Around here, the children who don't get a good education are those who do not pass the 11+ (determined to a significant extent by having the money for tutors and the right background to give home support) and those who do not 'find religion' or move practically next door to the excellent church schools. The difference between the private schools and the grammar/church schools is infinitely less than the difference between the grammar/church schools and all the others.

"However having that school on a CV will open doors in later life, your peers will push you up the ladder, expectations of life will be different."
Depends on the school, of course. This certainly applies to the "top" names. Rather less to St Custard's- where parents will be sadly disappointed if they think their child will get the school tie advantage. To (roughly) quote Lord Peter Wimsey "Rugby? Surely that's a railway junction"

My kids go to a very leafy primary, where a significant number of parents would have the option of private school. The idea that they choose state school in order that their children share a level playing field with the rest of society is laughable.

Private schools are such a totemic issue. For the record, I am a private school parent and I'm not wholly convinced it makes that much of a difference. If we really wanted to reduce inequality as a society, we should abolish inheritance and significantly reduce the tax burden on the working population. That'd actually have an impact.

The most vocally left wing person I know sends her kids to a private school. There were 2 decent primary schools they could have gone to but she didn’t even consider them. Do I think she is a hypocrite? Oh yes.

I think I mean diversity as in kids having to rub along with people from different backgrounds/cultures/ways of life to you rather than racial diversity per se.

Perhaps I didn’t explain properly either. In most private schools alongside ethnic diversity you get a myriad of nationalities that state cannot compete with. There is certainly no lack of different backgrounds, cultures and ways of life. There is no way I would get this at our local schools.

If you are talking specifically about economic background, then you might be right. I say ‘might’ becuase I’m not sure my local state school provides economic diversity across the whole scale. I will expect the deeper you get into London then economic diversity will be more pronounced, but since i am not, everyone’s pretty much the same around here to be honest.

Rather than all your peers being privileged which much skew your view of the world and how the majority of people live, which is exactly the issue with the MPs mentioned in the OP I guesspsychedelic

Your view of the world can be skewed the other way as well. I would have thought It’s just as important to get a view of how the other side live since, since they hold most political and economic power. I don’t need a further view of how the rest of the world live, I already know that.

However having that school on a CV will open doors in later life

I honestly don't believe this. Not in an increasingly globalised world. 50 years ago? Definitely. 20 years ago? Maybe - if you went to a "big name". In 20 years time? No.

Second to the last paragraph irrelevant, don’t know why that jumped down there.

I think you should make your choices based on your child, not what you think you ought to think or be doing to fit into a political 'slot'. Never mind reading books about what a public school person is like, perhaps you could visit the school and look at the children, talk to them, engage with the teachers, talk to the Head. I took my child out of a Primary school that was supposed to be very good but was totally failing her. Sending her to private school changed everything. We made a lot of sacrifices to do it and got into debt, but she would be a totally different person today if we hadn't done that.

Seems like we Champagne Socialists face the unpleasant choice between hypocrisy and self-righteousness.

I actually think I am both of these- a very unattractive combination.

However having that school on a CV will open doors in later life

In later life? Quite frankly, anyone who’s relying on the name of their school to open doors in later life has had a wasted education.

The whole point of being a lefty socialist is everyone is treated the same and resources are shared equally so no you can’t be a lefty and send your child to private school especially if you then lecture others on the evils of capitalism. But lots of labour lefties hypocrites send their kids to private or selective schools: Diane Abbot, Shami Chakrabhati, Lord Mendelssohn, Emily Thornberry, Harriet Harman, Tony Blair so it’s not just you OP

I took my child out of a Primary school that was supposed to be very good but was totally failing her.

To add a bit of balance, I did the same thing - took my child out of a private school that was supposed to be very good but was totally failing her. Not all private schools are good; not all state schools are bad. As lightonthewater says, just choose the best place for your child. If that makes you a political hypocrite, then it does.

Lightonthe water if you can’t apply your principles to your children they are not worth holding

My father was a left leaning hippy type who had done a teaching degree around the time I was born. My mother insists that the plan had been for me (subsequent siblings following behind) to attend the private kindergarten and then public primary school. But then they attended some meetings about the transition to school process and he made the decision to keep me at the same school. When we moved cities a few years later the decision to send us to a similar private was cemented by the mould in the catchment primary making my sister’s asthma worse.

In Australia we are also dealing with a 3 stream system of state, catholic and independent schools, and the proportion of students in private schools is proportionally greater than in the uk (or almost anywhere really)

I pulled my children from the state system when it became clear that the school was the problem, not the kids. Am totally aware that I should have handed in my socialist badge but have chosen to keep it and learn to live with the constant feeling of not quite acting on principals.

In the end I think that most people who believe in [something important] find that when personal things come up their principles might not be as strong as they’d thought.

I think I mean diversity as in kids having to rub along with people from different backgrounds/cultures/ways of life to you ...

Oh - you mean a boarding school! (With all the economic and racial diversity you could wish for.)

Lightonthe water if you can’t apply your principles to your children they are not worth holding

I think Light is saying the same as I did at the start - as a parent your overall guiding principle should be: Do that which is in the best interest of your family/child in this specific case.
Politics can bugger right off.

Hmm. It would be a cold day in hell before I chose to use Will Self as any sort of example of anything. Or at least if anything positive!

I agree with you there, Bertrand. He also sent his children to private school while claiming to be a socialist.

To look at it another way, if you're going to have private schools (and a lot of us think it would be better if they didn't exist), then surely the more lefties that attend them, the better? If private education buys power and influence, then I would rather that power and influence was in the hands of those who might use it for social good rather than personal greed. Look at all the socialist MPs, human rights lawyers, charitable campaigners etc who went to private schools. Would the country be a better place if those individuals had gone to different schools and perhaps not ended up in the positions they're in?

And yes of course they might have ended up in the same jobs anyway. But as someone said upthread - if private schools don't buy power and influence, then why are we worrying about it anyway?

If we lived in a socialist society where all state schools were giving all. Huldren a good all round education, then you could not call yourself a lefties if you sent your child private.

The key word there is if. Because there are some pretty awful schools out there, and putting a couple of middle class kid s in them will not turn the schools around.

The local middle class selective faith school has a great reputation. It hasn't put a girl through a level physics for donkeys. If you had a scientific child would you really make life that hard for her?

All children in what should be the first sentance

Of course you can’t be truly left and use private schools 😂 You are not truly left at all are you OP? You are just out for what’s best for you and yours.

Nice, candyflip. I assume when you die you're going to leave any assets you have to the collective?

Some Fanny Dashwood style 360 degree turnaround justifications on this thread

To look at it another way, if you're going to have private schools (and a lot of us think it would be better if they didn't exist), then surely the more lefties that attend them, the better? If private education buys power and influence, then I would rather that power and influence was in the hands of those who might use it for social good rather than personal greed

Huge - huge - assumption there that left wing = good. Or left wing = social good. I would strongly disagree with that assumption.

Yes basil? And?