Can you be a leftie and use private schools? Are people prejudiced against the privately educated?

[SpoonsAndForks]

I've always been into equality of opportunity and on that basis, think that it's wrong that our country allows private schools.

But then my son's state primary went into special measures and I pulled him out and put him into private school. Now he's being offered a really great scholarship to stay on and I'm considering going private all the way. So I'd rather private schools didn't exist but now they do, yes I'd like my child to benefit from them.

I came across this book yesterday - www.amazon.co.uk/Posh-Boys-English-Schools-Britain/dp/1786073838/?tag=mumsnetforum-21 - the intro to the book sets out the 'public schoolboy' as the most horrible creature, misogynistic, egotistical, generally a posh hawhawhaw uncaring horror (usually a nasty MP). Yet the intro also sets out some interesting statistics about those in top jobs always being from private school (which makes me want to give my child that opportunity). But makes me sick at the thought of educating my child into a guffawing posh MP.

I'm keen to explore:

• whether you can sit politically to the left and square it with yourself if you use a private school
• whether children who go to private schools will experience judgement and prejudice against them
• whether children who go to private schools are all at risk of turning into posh uncaring brash misogynistic MP types.

On Jeremy - going to a private school doesn't necessarily mean you are in favour of them. Jeremy C divorced his wife after she chose selective education for his children.

Corbyn is a prat so I wouldn't use him as any arbiter of what is right or wrong.

I used to be very left wing. By the time my son was born I was moderately left wing. We sent him to a private school. It probably isn't compatible with being a lefty but I didn't and don't care.

Quite simply if there were enough grammar schools to go around , there would be few private schools !...
I thought the rise in private schools in England was a direct result of the abolition of the grammar system. Grammars became private. Is this correct?

As far as I am aware, Eton has no full bursaries or scholarships. Very few private schools do.
Bertrand you spend most of your life on mn education threads yet apparently you haven't noticed the numerous comments about the full bursaries offered by Eton.
Or is that you just don't want to believe it as it doesn't fit with your perception of public schools?

Op you are a hypocrite.

Dionne. Yes a lot of Grammar schools choose to become fee paying after the large scale abolition of selective education.

The ones that choose to remain in the state system became Comprehensive thus with the exception of the 11 selective areas, Northern Ireland and the 'fake' Comps of Hertfordshire .

A hypocrite is someone who does not practice what they preach.

Affluent, middle-class ‘Lefties’ who send their kids to private schools are, therefore, hypocrites.

They pay lip service to the benefits of egalitarian education, but what is good enough for working class kids whose parents don’t have a choice, isn’t good enough for their own precious offspring.

But that’s OK. We are all hypocritical about some things. In principle, I strongly support farmers’ markets, farm shops and local artisan food producers. In practice, I do shop at those places occasionally and I feel good about doing so. Most of the time, however, I shop at convenient supermarkets because I work full time, I have hobbies at the weekend and farm shops and artisan bakeries aren’t open at 7pm on weekdays.

If you’re going to be a hypocrite about your child’s education, at least have the honesty and integrity to own it.

And the worst thing you can be is a leftie hypocrite.

Pay your taxes, vote for a fairer society, get actively involved in your community but if what you do is not an exact replica of your political views you are total bastard hypocrite. God forbid you should express concern about your decisions and consider what you are doing.

Go to a tax dodging regime,with human frights abuses, or simply dodge tax in the U.K., refuses to engage with the reality of the world, vote to make the world a less fair and just place but you are fiiiinnneeee because you are not a hypocrite.

It's better to be an honest, full frontal twat than to be honest about making (possibly) a dodgy decision or two.

The '163' Grammar schools in England and '50' or so in Northern Ireland give a target for the Lefties to attack . The lefties choose to attack them rather than there own Posh 'Alma Maters'

Interestingly going forward I wonder if the abolition of Grammar schools in Northern Ireland (if a vote to join Ireland in a referendum ) might have a part to play in the outcome if such a vote were to take place).

This being because the best state schools in Northern Ireland (and possibly the U.K ) are Catholic Grammar schools !

That however is another question..

I don't like private schools and would never send my kids to one even if I could afford to which I absolutely can't. I prefer them to mix with kids from a range of backgrounds and lifestyles, not just a bunch of middle class Tarquins and Jemimas.

I was the only one of my siblings to go to state school, I did worse in my GCSES than them but now have the highest level or education and earn the most money so it's not a guarantee of 'success' anyway.

To answer the OP’s original questions:

• yes, in the U.K., people who have attended private/public schools are judged. I say that as someone who attended private schools. Just look at the rest of the thread for evidence of judgement. It is quite possible that people who attended state schools are also judged but since 93% of pupils are in state schools, I think it less likely to have a major impact on them.
• no, not everyone (a mere 7%) who attends private school becomes the MP stereotype you talk about. Perhaps that stereotype is more about people who drawn into that profession rather than where they were educated. I would like to think I have turned out quite reasonably - I’m a teacher (usually seen as a very left wing profession, definitely not in it for the money) in a state school.

This is a big debate considering only 7% of pupils attend private/public schools. As a teacher, I would say that not all schools (state or private) are the same. I’m incredibly grateful for the opportunities I had in my private education - small classes and individual attention. In some cases, better facilities although that was a ‘nice to have’ rather than having any real bearing on my own outcomes. People talk about peer groups in private schools - in my experience ‘networking’ was minimal. The classes were small and we went in different directions so there wasn’t quite the network people think exists. However, the real benefit of the peer group was that we all had parents that took education seriously. The school, parents (and therefore students) were roughly on the same page about bad behaviour. The school acted accordingly and parents backed them up. Expectations were high but achievable for everyone and there was minimal disruption in class. There was minimal disruption on class - that allowed expectations to be high.

To me, that is the big difference between state and private schools. That is not to say that state schools can’t emulate private schools and vice versa. There are some state schools that are excellent and some private schools that are shocking.

I would still recommend looking at individual students and individual schools to ensure you get the best match.

Jeremy C divorced his wife after she chose selective education for his children.

Did he do it because she chose selective education or just after she did? I suppose I could google.

There will always be well off people buying things other people don't have.

This is the crux of the matter. Some people buy access to good state schools through catchment or tutoring for the 11 plus. Some people buy access to cultural capital through extra lessons, trips abroad, etc. Some people buy access to good private education.

It always seems so arbitrary when people think buying a private education is bad and you should stay in the system so the tide will raise all boats whereas buying ski trips or french exchanges or educational trips to London or clarinet lessons for your child in state education is fine and no one thinks you should forego these for your child and instead focus your efforts on making sure all children in the school can access these things.

I don't like private schools and would never send my kids to one even if I could afford to which I absolutely can't. I prefer them to mix with kids from a range of backgrounds and lifestyles, not just a bunch of middle class Tarquins and Jemimas

That is such a silly comment.

Why is it silly? Private schools have a far less diverse population than state schools. How dull.

Had I sent my son to a state school it would have been pretty much as middle class as the private school he attended.

The hackneyed old trope of "Jemima and Tarquin" is so tedious.

Why is it silly? Private schools have a far less diverse population than state schools. How dull.

Private schools do not have the same level of economic diversity of state schools, however, they are racially diverse, often have international students, and there is some (limited) economic diversity.

Why is it silly? Private schools have a far less diverse population than state schools. How dull.

Depends on what kind of diversity you’re talking about. The state schools my dc attended are the least ethnically diverse schools I’ve come across in fact at primary it was the whole school whiteand 3 black kids, I found that very dull.
At the private schools the diversity of ethnicity was amazing. But people always seem to focus of economic diversity here, that is not everyone’s priority.

My "Jemima and Tarquin" go to state school!

(For some reason Tarquin autocorrected to Tarquinius. Which a)proves how posh I am and b) I probably shouldn't mention because it'll end up being Mumsnet's favourite boy's name.

Haha mine tried to put Tarquinius too. That is some next level posho

I was so glad to see this thread because this is an issue that concerns me, and something that I feel a lot of guilt about.

However, I don’t send my DD to private school because I want to buy her a better education. I think that it has been shown that a private education doesn’t have a massive impact on exam grades achieved. What I want to do is stop her from having to go through the hell that I did at my local comprehensive, where being academic wasn’t exactly considered cool. Although I came out with great results, went to a good university and have a successful career, years of bullying have certainly had a massive impact on my happiness and confidence.

Is it wrong to want my daughter to enjoy her childhood? I should have loved school, being interested in learning and academically able, but those were easily the worst years of my life. My local comprehensive is allegedly outstanding, but seeing the stories coming out of there and speaking to people who attended, the culture is exactly the same as that of the dump I went to.

So maybe I’m a hypocrite, but I just want to protect my child. What I will absolutely NOT be doing is use her private primary education to buy her a grammar place in the neighbouring borough. This at least makes me feel a bit better about my decision, but I’m aware that many posters on this thread will consider what I’m doing to be wrong

I think I mean diversity as in kids having to rub along with people from different backgrounds/cultures/ways of life to you rather than racial diversity per se.

Rather than all your peers being privileged which much skew your view of the world and how the majority of people live, which is exactly the issue with the MPs mentioned in the OP I guess

Bertrand I just picked Tarquin and Jemima coz i once heard Will Self use them to represent posh kids in a discussion about 'Chelsea tractors' actually!

Luckily this is a long way in the future for me. But I would consider private school, and also consider myself left wing. I don't see it as particularly hypocritical, but clearly a lot of people do!

In my mind, my ideal world contains valued, well-funded state education and that is the basis on which I vote. I don't believe we have this at the moment. I think the state education system is being progressively failed by low funding and I'm concerned about the issue of acadamies.

Less objectively, I live in a fairly deprived areas of East London and there have been multiple stabbings amongst the local school kids in the 4 years I've lived here.

I personally don't see it as any different to using private health insurance (which I do, holding it through work), while believing the NHS is a valuable asset and taking its perpetuation into account when voting.

I believe its now law/ruling that private schools must offer full bursary to financially needy students from the local area in order to maintain their charitable designation with a requirement that in the future (can't remember how far) that 10% must be from financially deprived families of the local area. I will say in our experience there is probably more financial diversity in the private sector than in the state sector. State = mostly middle class, some poor, few to no rich; Private = mostly middle, some obscenely rich and some very poor.

Hmm. It would be a cold day in hell before I chose to use Will Self as any sort of example of anything. Or at least if anything positive!

You buy your children advantage by sending them to private school. That’s a fact.

But social problems remain no matter where your child is educated. I have friends who teach in private school who see a different kind of neglect: Children still waiting to
Be picked up at 6pm, always in childcare, under extreme pressure in exam factories.

Drugs are an issue. One school recently had to contend with its older pupils hiring a hotel room in which to take cocaine during the school prom.

However having that school on a CV will open doors in later life, your peers will push you up the ladder, expectations of life will be different.

I suppose that’s what people pay for.