Can you be a leftie and use private schools? Are people prejudiced against the privately educated?

[SpoonsAndForks]

I've always been into equality of opportunity and on that basis, think that it's wrong that our country allows private schools.

But then my son's state primary went into special measures and I pulled him out and put him into private school. Now he's being offered a really great scholarship to stay on and I'm considering going private all the way. So I'd rather private schools didn't exist but now they do, yes I'd like my child to benefit from them.

I came across this book yesterday - www.amazon.co.uk/Posh-Boys-English-Schools-Britain/dp/1786073838/?tag=mumsnetforum-21 - the intro to the book sets out the 'public schoolboy' as the most horrible creature, misogynistic, egotistical, generally a posh hawhawhaw uncaring horror (usually a nasty MP). Yet the intro also sets out some interesting statistics about those in top jobs always being from private school (which makes me want to give my child that opportunity). But makes me sick at the thought of educating my child into a guffawing posh MP.

I'm keen to explore:

• whether you can sit politically to the left and square it with yourself if you use a private school
• whether children who go to private schools will experience judgement and prejudice against them
• whether children who go to private schools are all at risk of turning into posh uncaring brash misogynistic MP types.

And before death too! Although this is not my thread so why are my actions being questioned?

You are just out for what’s best for you and yours
Why is that anti-left? Becoming the best possible person you can be so you can give back to society? No one said screw your neighbour to do it, or lie or cheat or..... You do what is best for you and your child as we all do and then give them guiding principles to give back to society. These threads are fun but they really don't go anywhere.
OP make your best choice and best of luck in your future.

By accepting/promoting elitist education? And giving some children a different start in life? How can that be better for everyone?

What do you do if there is no choice of state schools, and your child is very unhappy at your catchment school?

And giving some children a different start in life?

Private education is a bit of a red herring here, though. As Bertrand said upthread, kids from educated, affluent families get a different start in life from those who come from uneducated, poor families. If you want to change that, then you need to look at something a lot more radical than the school system....

I agree, but if you have so called lefties (OP’s words) abandoning their principles for their own kids. What hope is there that those people would ever seek change? They enjoy their privilege too much.

Before having children I used to be very clear on this question: I would send my children to a good state primary school.

Then, living in inner London with a child, I came up smack against the reality of highly selective church admissions (VA schools), high population density and huge differences between church and non-church schools that were less than 300m apart.

So we thought about moving to an area that was well known for its good schools. Fine, but every open house-viewing was attended by Mr and Mrs Banker and Mr and Mrs Lawyer hoping to buy a house in that ‘state’ school catchment, followed by bidding wars. The whole area was like a pressure-cooker of competition.

In the end we moved out of London, bought a house we like with no particular view to catchment (so we would not have got in to our local good school) and our child attends an independent school along with the children of a wide range of people - probably more diverse than the ‘state’ school above. Yes, we are paying, but it feels like a much more honest transaction than the alternatives that were open to us.

There is a very strong correlation between poor (on paper, not always in real life) schools and very disadvantaged areas. What I can never understand is why so many mumsnetters with money for private school seem to live near the worst state schools. Surely most well off people live in nice places?

In my working life - and perhaps now I’m talking 15-20 years ago I was frequently asked by new clients/colleagues what school I attended. I was working in an environment where everyone had been to a top private school. They weren’t very productive but looked after each other career-wise.

I now work with management consultants many of them very young, very clever and very nice, and practically all have the private school veneer. I don’t remember that career path being talked about at my London state comprehensive school.

I think about a third of employees at the BBC were privately educated - I don’t know, perhaps they are just ‘better’ than their state educated peers?

However i agreee - it does depend on what private school you attend. There are some terrible ones about.

Because, in an area of wide social diversity and high population density, if one school has a specific admissions criteria (attend a specific church for two years) and a better Ofsted, wheras the other school is a community school with a satisfactory/previously unsatisfactory Ofsted the two schools rapidly become polarised.

whereas

I don't judge people for sending their kids to private schools ....just feel very smug because my two Graduate daughters have done better than theirs .
One such aquantiance recoiled in shock when I told her about my daughter's offers !
And another is completely flabbergasted at my daughter not wanting to apply to Cambridge even though her predictions are all A*s.

What I can never understand is why so many mumsnetters with money for private school seem to live near the worst state schools. Surely most well off people live in nice places?

Our local school (in a "nice place") looks quite good on paper, and one of my kids was fine there. It turns out to be extremely provincial, quite narrow minded, and terrible for kids with certain kinds of problems. It is not a terrible school, but some children are debilitatingly unhappy there.

"It is not a terrible school, but some children are debilitatingly unhappy there."
Of course. But I know children who have been/are debilitatingly unhappy at private school too. But I wouldn't be daft enough to blame the sector.

I think the difference is that some people have the ability to buy their way out of a situation.

They have the financial power to really think about what school suits their child/happiness/potential etc while the rest of us send our child to the school down the road and make the best of it.

I think there is prejudice - some private school children do seem to think that state educated pupils are ‘bad’ and I guess these are attitudes picked up at home.

Parents can only choose from the schools that are able to admit their child at the time of admissions. If a good state school is not available to you, then it is not available.

The state admissions system is utterly polarised and until the inequalities within it are resolved, specifically around church and distance-based admissions, the actions of a single individual are going to have little effect.

And yet the advantages a private education brings are clear.

I think it’s 7% of children are privately educated but 29% of MPs are privately educated

I think it’s 7% of children are privately educated but 29% of MPs are privately educated

So about 70% aren’t? That’s quite interesting because from this thread, you’d think 99% were.

*I think it’s 7% of children are privately educated but 29% of MPs are privately educated^

So about 70% aren’t? That’s quite interesting because from this thread, you’d think 99% were.*

Well said.

I went to a good comprehensive and did very well there. But I was still bullied for being ‘posh’, ‘square’ and too brainy by those who had no interest in learning. I received none of the advantages of a private school education, yet, like TinyCitrus, as soon as I went to university I was directly competing against those who had experienced those advantages. I was doing an arts subject and studying alongside ex-private school pupils who had travelled extensively with their parents and on school trips, studied History of Art, studied more languages, taken gap-years, undertaken unpaid internships with MPs...Their education and preparation for university had simply been ‘richer’, in all senses of the word!

I was single-minded, tenacious and still did very well at university, whereas some of my privately-educated peers did struggle with motivation and independent learning. However, the more tenacious of them are now quite successful in creative fields which, frankly, I could not afford to pursue due to the financial uncertainty.

Ultimately, money makes a difference.

What I can never understand is why so many mumsnetters with money for private school seem to live near the worst state schools. Surely most well off people live in nice places?

For us, we live in London and bought our house within the last 5 years. Despite earning high salaries, and the house costing a figure I find eye-watering, the area is one that would be looked down on by a lot of people and the schools reflect that.

Of course, I could sell up and move to Surrey near a nice school, but I don't see that as sitting any morally better with my left leanings!

A friend of mine is passionately left wing. A few years ago he had a child who has turned out to have significant special needs. He is still in the state system, and is lucky enough that his local school provides excellent support. However, although he has not compromised his principles at all, it is interesting that he now says he would never judge someone who does - because he would now never judge anyone unless he's stood in their shoes. I feel the same about healthcare as I do about schools. It's always been an automatic red line for me - I have never even considered private health insurance, and turned it down when offered it through work. But - my family are all in excellent health, and my children have no additional needs. If I had a child facing a two year waiting list for a much-needed procedure or a psych assessment, who am I to say whether I would abandon my principles and go private? So I refuse to blanket-judge those who do.

orthepotofbasil
A principle that is abandoned in difficult circumstances is not a principle. It is just and unchallenged ideal.

BertrandRussell obviously I am not blaming the sector. I am blaming the lack of choice. When my son was not ok at the only available state school, then I was hypocritical enough to send him to a private school against my better principles.

Perhaps. But my point is, it's easy to think you have unshakeable principles until you are put in a situation that shakes them.