Can you be a leftie and use private schools? Are people prejudiced against the privately educated?

[SpoonsAndForks]

I've always been into equality of opportunity and on that basis, think that it's wrong that our country allows private schools.

But then my son's state primary went into special measures and I pulled him out and put him into private school. Now he's being offered a really great scholarship to stay on and I'm considering going private all the way. So I'd rather private schools didn't exist but now they do, yes I'd like my child to benefit from them.

I came across this book yesterday - www.amazon.co.uk/Posh-Boys-English-Schools-Britain/dp/1786073838/?tag=mumsnetforum-21 - the intro to the book sets out the 'public schoolboy' as the most horrible creature, misogynistic, egotistical, generally a posh hawhawhaw uncaring horror (usually a nasty MP). Yet the intro also sets out some interesting statistics about those in top jobs always being from private school (which makes me want to give my child that opportunity). But makes me sick at the thought of educating my child into a guffawing posh MP.

I'm keen to explore:

• whether you can sit politically to the left and square it with yourself if you use a private school
• whether children who go to private schools will experience judgement and prejudice against them
• whether children who go to private schools are all at risk of turning into posh uncaring brash misogynistic MP types.

nutritional = nutritious
It's late!

So you're going for drunk and principled OP. I like that.

"Why is school any different?"

State school is the equivalent of giving your child one meal a day?

Why do people persist in making these ridiculous, offensive analogies?

Everybody makes compromises. It is only people on the left who seem to get criticised for it.

I'm a lefty, both my DS went to the nearest state schools, but it's really easy for me to say that because both primary and secondary were excellent schools.

This thread is just so delicious.

There seem to be some very odd positions here.
On the one hand, it’s offensive to compare state schooling to inadequate nutrition. This suggests that people should not say state schools are not good.
But if state schools are good, what is the problem with going private? No advantage is being secured by doing so, on this view.
I don’t understand. Either private is better and it’s unfair, or it isn’t and it’s pointless. It can’t be both no better and unfair.

Everybody makes compromises

Yea, last time my socialist principles, to end the inequality of wealthy people buying a better education (than working class people), came into conflict with my children's well being, I had to compromise and send my children to private school with the wealthy elite.

But I hated every second of it and made a donation to the local food bank to compensate

Like I said 'everybody makes compromises' it happens that I didn't over education. I think it is better for people to try to do the right thing and stick to their principles rather than just not have any.

We make it hard for ourselves on the left because many people do have a conscience - that is not to say others don't. When faced with an issue you might post about it or discuss it so it appears there is more compromise.

Is it better to just do something 'wrong' and give it no consideration? I'm posting on the 'I live is Saudis Arabia AMA' thread. No one appears to have given any thought to the fact that Saudi is a human rights nightmare. So no compromises, no hypocrisy, no issues, people just going about their business taking money off an oppressive regime.

The OP sees an issue and discusses it. People laugh at the potential hypocrisy but I think at least some thought is going into it. The OP may then make other decisions to benefit society because of her 'liberal guilt'.

Like I said we all make compromises it depends where you draw the line.

There are some good TY programmers for medicine. RCSI and Trinity both have ones. A quick google should get the details.

Twisting people's words again, Bertrand.

I didn't say that getting one meal a day is the same as going to state school. That's ridiculous.

You complain that it's unethical for parents to choose private - that it's unfair, and doesn't give a level playing field.

But my point is that you're ignoring the far greater advantage your child has in being well fed and cared for, having a stable home and supportive parents who value education. I'm pretty sure they also have lots of books, extra-curricular activities, enriching exeriences, loving wider family, secure place within their community.

Private versus state education is a tiny part of the difference in the playing field level. You condemn parents for choosing private education, but I don't see you denying your children any of the much more significant advantages they enjoy. Now that's hypocritical.

"Twisting people's words again, Bertrand."
Nope. No twisting.
You may notice that I said earlier on the thread that the sort ofchildren who go to private school or who could go are already loaded with privilege-I think I used the expression "cultural capital" - an that the children who would actually benefit from private school are the one who would never be able to go. My children are incredibly privileged already-they don't need any more.

Having thought about it more I would sum it up as, "its ok to be socialist as long as you support the conservative system of paying for it". aka "For the many not the jew poor".

My children are incredibly privileged already-they don't need any more

So it's fine for you to buy them all the privilege they do have. But buying any more is unethical. Okaayyy....

My smugness radar has just imploded.

If your child is offered a golden ticket, you sing and dance round the room with them.
Privilege can come to the poorer wc families too, and provide social mobility and friends for life stuff.
I find it very unfair that the opportunity isn't there for STEM subjects, when the country is clearly in need, for the future.

There are scholarships and bursaries available for bright children to go to private schools. Not every child at Eton is from a rich background!

I don't see the problem or the need to be anxious about it: if schools in the area in which you live are not up to scratch you do your best to get a better education for your children. It's very wrong that so many schools are not good but it's not the fault of your kids, they deserve the very best you can manage.

Many thanks for the perspective Rebecca
So glad to hear that about Eton.

"My smugness radar has just imploded"

Not sure if that was directed at me, but if it was, I can't help how you feel. I am not going to deny the fact that my children are very privileged. Why would I do that?

As far as I am aware, Eton has no full bursaries or scholarships. Very few private schools do.

Aw, just as I thought originally, so it's unfair that STEM aren't being offered the same.
Most families I know couldn't afford school fees, even with a bursary.

Gilly, according to the Eton website "During the 2015/16 academic year 273 boys (21% of the school) will receive means-tested bursaries averaging a 66% reduction in school fees, with 73 of those pupils paying no fees at all."

Eton does have full bursaries and so do many private schools although it is fair to say that very few are offered and they are generally means tested

On the squaring it with your conscience point - why not consult Diane Abbott? She and very many other Labour MPs past and present send their children to private schools. In fact I think the blessed Jeremy attended a private prep school.

My DC both went private. I think they are nice kind well mannered kids and nothing like the people you are stereotyping

There will always be well off people buying things other people don't have. So while I am 'against' them I can't get too worked up about people who choose them. Most people I know can't afford to.

I do however feel like the Tories would be 'winning' if everyone opted out of the state sector, giving them an excuse to give schools even less money than they are currently.

I do have strong views about grammar schools and think they should be abolished in the counties where they still exist fat chance. I don't think it's fair that a child should get a better state education because they passed their 11+. In the 50s/60s you were pretty much written off educationally at 11 if you didn't pass it.

I don't blame Diane Abbott for sending her child to a private schools, because if you read her reasons for doing so, they are much more valid (gang culture) than those that the average champagne socialist would come up with ('wanting the best for their child, etc.'). Diane has worked tirelessly for social justice and can claim to be a leftie far more than most people.

There was an interest article in the Observer recently about some black people at risk from gangs who were sent to Rugby and it genuinely changed their lives. If there could be more scholarships to private education for reasons like this, that would be a good thing.

I sent my kids to the local state school over the (better on paper) catholic school I could have sent her to (as a very lapsed catholic). But something stopped me... I felt like I was selling out, and when they got into the local community school I was really relieved. I love the rounded education they get there among children from a wide variety of backgrounds.

I do pay for various clubs though (music, dancing etc) and not everybody can do this. This sort of inequality is what school enrichment money is supposed to help prevent, if only the Tories would stop cutting school funding...

The Sunday Times did an article about this last week. One boy featured is a Palestinian who lives with his family on the Gaza Strip.

The Sunday Times magazine also featured a boy from Sunderland whose friends though he was going to 'Heaton' for Sixth Form not Eton. Heaton being a part of Newcastle !