Can you be a leftie and use private schools? Are people prejudiced against the privately educated?

[SpoonsAndForks]

I've always been into equality of opportunity and on that basis, think that it's wrong that our country allows private schools.

But then my son's state primary went into special measures and I pulled him out and put him into private school. Now he's being offered a really great scholarship to stay on and I'm considering going private all the way. So I'd rather private schools didn't exist but now they do, yes I'd like my child to benefit from them.

I came across this book yesterday - www.amazon.co.uk/Posh-Boys-English-Schools-Britain/dp/1786073838/?tag=mumsnetforum-21 - the intro to the book sets out the 'public schoolboy' as the most horrible creature, misogynistic, egotistical, generally a posh hawhawhaw uncaring horror (usually a nasty MP). Yet the intro also sets out some interesting statistics about those in top jobs always being from private school (which makes me want to give my child that opportunity). But makes me sick at the thought of educating my child into a guffawing posh MP.

I'm keen to explore:

• whether you can sit politically to the left and square it with yourself if you use a private school
• whether children who go to private schools will experience judgement and prejudice against them
• whether children who go to private schools are all at risk of turning into posh uncaring brash misogynistic MP types.

That is why Michaela will be very successful ! The mainstream 'leftist' educational establishment are hoping the school falls flat on its face. They would willingly sacrifice children to protect a belief in a true 'Comprehensive' model of education. This being a system that makes no requirements for entry !

Surely the best education for a child is the one that allows them to reach their potential.
No, not all children are able to access such a school, we've managed one out of 3 with our dc.
Life isn't fair.

This week I've heard that children who have attended certain schools (which happen to be ss ) shouldn't be able to access certain Higher ed institutions, as they have an unfair advantage.
WTF there are children from state schools, and grammar going to Oxbridge and RG Uni's.
Even in our poor excuse for state schools there's usually one in the area, each year.

Yes. Leftie with DC in private school here. I was a motivated kid who did well at state school. Assumed my kids would too. They are bright and have different combinations of ASD, ADHD and dyslexia.

We have done 3 nice state primaries and 2 nice comps. Over time it has become harder for schools to meet my DC’s needs. Support staff has halved.

The cost in terms of my kids mental and physical health has been high - anxiety, panic, school refusal. It's been bloody awful. The youngest was finding primary stressful. Sensory issues made the noise unbearable and they spent much of the time working in the corridor and lay in bed at night unable to sleep and shaking with stress. This DC now at private secondary and likes it because it is calm.

I can’t see how me still being a state school parent would help other kids (I was a supportive, volunteering, PTA parent). I could have given up work and home educated which would have cost more. I know how lucky we are to have an option to the suffering.

If you have conventional kids who would do well anywhere then you are free to think I’m a hypocrite and/or wasting my money. Good for you.

In the real world I've never come across anyone who judged me for the school I went to (private). I look around my work place and have no clue where most people (with a few obvious exceptions) went to school. Suspect it's mostly grammar / private and some State.

I pay for my children to go private. I'm sure they would also do well in a good State school. After all more than half of Oxbridge students were at a State school and the majority in most professions (even if private schools are proportionately over represented). But I like the extras private offers with minimal effort from me and think they are likely to get a broader education overall with smaller classes etc.

I don't feel guilt. Any more than I would if my children went to a leafy State school in a nice area I had bought a house in and knew that others went to a sink school near an estate down the road. That is not to say I don't care it don't feel strongly that schools should offer everyone a good education.

PeggySchuylar that school stress sounds so horrible, I'm glad that things are better for your DC now.

Everyone else, I'm so interested in all your responses, thank you all or posting, this raises so many questions and dilemmas for me.

I'm not sure where to begin in working out my response / approach - clearly I'm not a very left leftie if I can feel ok about sending my DC to private school. But I'm not sure yet whether that means I'll choose principles, reject private and go state, or whether I'll reject being a leftie to embrace going private, or instead sit somewhere muddy and in-between - voting left but choosing private school.

How do you judge me ! Grammar school , then Secondary Modern then Public School back to Grammar school . The Secondary Modern part being when I was taken in to care at '13.'This for one year after mums breakdown (the Modern school being the one all the kids from the care home went to ).
My wealthy uncle paid for two years at Public school for me ,then I went back to original Grammar school for sixth form when mum recovered . Quite a varied schooling I think.

Could poorer parents of children in deprived areas, call themselves socialists if they send their children to private or grammar?

That's me, I do. I'm quite far left and wc poor as church mice compared to many on here.
We do pay, but hardly anything compared to those that have to pay £32k, due to being much richer than us

Making her attend a state school wouldn't change the outcomes for the children who attend, but it would change my dd outcomes.
She knows she is lucky and pushes herself because unlike her rich friends, who by the way are absolutely lovely, she knows the tax payers are funding her education.
The rich children know their parents are funding theirs and they work equally as hard and are just as grateful and appreciative for the opportunity. I honestly see no difference when I visit the school.

Thanks Spoons for the supportive comment and reading my rant. It was even longer before I cut some bits out.

Good luck with your decision making.

Gillybeanz. You say you are quite left wing but as you are surely aware with a DD at a Boarding school , life is not as simple as being political right and left wing. There are personal conflicts and opinions that cross over what could be considered as on the right or left politically !

Gilly and Spoons
Would you vote in a GE tomorrow for a government which promised to outlaw private schools within 12 months of winning?
They would provide extra places at state schools around current private school locations.

Can anyone imagine what a socialist education system would actually look like? I imagine all private, grammar, faith and any sort of selection was banned, everyone equal. You would have zero choice of school and the state would force you to send your DC to the local comp no matter how good or bad.

Is that what everyone anyone wants? I would call that making everyone equal at the bottom! Not for me.

Walkingdead Why do you think that is what socialist education would look like? You are describing something very extreme. The way I imagine it, schools would be very well funded in a socialist regime; teachers well paid, respected, highly qualified. There would be lots of choice, but all schools would be funded by the state.

In Holland, which has a more socialist system than ours, there are state schools for dancers and musicians, for instance. There are more alternative type schools, such as Montessori, Steiner, Catholic, etc, but they are all state funded. There are things about their system I don't like, but the basic idea that different kinds of schools are open to everyone and not based on money, is good.

I wouldn't vote for that because of the disruption to children's education and private school staff. But I would vote for a government who would phase them out over 7 years. That's nothing to do with my children by the way - they're still in state primary. If that policy was announced tomorrow, I would choose a state secondary for them.

claraschu, in the Dutch system, children are divided at 12 to go into one of three different types of secondary school, so it kind of resembles the grammar school system in that respect. However, DH, who went through that system, says that there isn’t really a way that richer parents could buy into the top level by tutoring because it’s partly determined by the observations of teachers. Also, there’s some movement between levels after the first year.

We’ve just been discussing it and although it seems like a better idea than the grammar school system, it probably doesn’t allow for much in the way of social mobility.

I don't have an issue with private schools. I do have an issue with people who shout loudly about how unfair the private system is to the less well off, or how unfair the great school system is, or how abhorrent it would be to send a child to any other form of selective school and who then decide that their own children 'deserve'a private school education.
Don't try to impose your 'lefty'political beliefs on others if you are not prepared to impose them on your own family.

I would never vote for a government promising to outlaw private education. Their energy should be spent tackling the problems in state schools; Underfunded, overcrowding, bahaviour management and provision for dc with mild SEN, inequalities across schools, supporting teachers better and raising the profile of the profession I order to attract more into the profession etc. Not pandering to a few whims in order to gain votes.

QueenofThorns I know about the Gymnasium system- and there are aspects of it which I really don't like.

I was talking about something else though, and answering a previous poster's warped view of "socialist education". I was pointing out that you can have state supported schools which are not all the same, and in Holland there are Steiner schools and specialist ballet schools (for instance) which are not fee-paying. That was my point.

However, DH, who went through that system, says that there isn’t really a way that richer parents could buy into the top level by tutoring because it’s partly determined by the observations of teachers. Also, there’s some movement between levels after the first year.

How do the teachers observe a pupil who’s being tutored at home by their parents everyday. I know at least two boys personally who were given intensive tutoring like this from yr 3. Both moved to top of the year (nothing wrong with that), although I could never enforce such a workload. They are both now at Westminster. All the teachers would’ve observed is that thesedc have been top students consistently years before the age 12 exams.

ItsHot Queen was talking about the Dutch system. The whole system, the society, and attitudes are very different in Holland...

i would like to see private schools abolished-it's obvious from this thread alone how socially divisive they are. But I accept that that isn't likely to happen. What I would like, though is for their charitable status to be removed. Or, if that is too complicated, as I am assured it would be, for there to be VAT on school fees.

i would like to see private schools abolished-it's obvious from this thread alone how socially divisive they are
I like that thinking! Based on that we should abolish taxes!
All the schools I have associated with act charitably by having full bursaries (including uniforms and educational trips) for local students without means - though I believe it is a mandated requirement now in order to remain a charity, though I could be wrong about the mandate.

""Or, if that is too complicated, as I am assured it would be, for there to be VAT on school fees."

Why is it too complicated? They're not charities so take the status away from them.

We did but after much soul searching and debate. There was absolutely no disadvantage and children are not guffawing MPs. They’re really quite nice.

Stop being left wing. Simple. I do love lefties with money.
They always want equality from a very unequal situation.
Embrace your new found stance. Having privilege it's great.
Look at Tony Blair and other Labour chums they all have money and lots of it. They send their children to private schools etc.
The world it's unequal. As much as I would love for all of us to have access to the same opportunities it isn't possible.
You know how hypocritical it is to keep your child at a private school if you are critical of the inequality that exist in the world.
I don't blame you for doing it just change your political stance.