Can you be a leftie and use private schools? Are people prejudiced against the privately educated?

[SpoonsAndForks]

I've always been into equality of opportunity and on that basis, think that it's wrong that our country allows private schools.

But then my son's state primary went into special measures and I pulled him out and put him into private school. Now he's being offered a really great scholarship to stay on and I'm considering going private all the way. So I'd rather private schools didn't exist but now they do, yes I'd like my child to benefit from them.

I came across this book yesterday - www.amazon.co.uk/Posh-Boys-English-Schools-Britain/dp/1786073838/?tag=mumsnetforum-21 - the intro to the book sets out the 'public schoolboy' as the most horrible creature, misogynistic, egotistical, generally a posh hawhawhaw uncaring horror (usually a nasty MP). Yet the intro also sets out some interesting statistics about those in top jobs always being from private school (which makes me want to give my child that opportunity). But makes me sick at the thought of educating my child into a guffawing posh MP.

I'm keen to explore:

• whether you can sit politically to the left and square it with yourself if you use a private school
• whether children who go to private schools will experience judgement and prejudice against them
• whether children who go to private schools are all at risk of turning into posh uncaring brash misogynistic MP types.

And in theory there's nothing necessarily wrong with grammar schools. In theory they are just one type of school in a system in which all children go to equally good but different schools which provide the best type of education for each child's needs. In practice of course that doesn't work. Because of the frequent correlation between behaviour and academic ability. Because of the frequent correlation between wealth and both of the above. Because of the frequent correlation between low income and low educational aspiration. Because of these and all the other reasons why they don't work which we all know so I won't keep typing them.

Being able to get clever well supported children good exam results? Nope-not better.

What utter bullshit. Of course the same children will do better in a private school with better teachers, ethos, class sizes, and discipline than without them.

Getting clever privileged children to look at their privilege and think about the society they live in and the impact they might have on it? Nope-not better.

Seriously, does anyone give two shits about that when their child is sailing into Oxbridge?

We have only one state school we can send our kids to. What do you do when the only available state school is making your child miserable?

That's when you realise the downside to socialism, the upside to capitalism and make a choice. Me, I would chose the private school but I am not embarrassed to call myself a capitalist.

I dont think real socialism can ever succeed because it does not fit with human nature, we have an instinct to be selfish.

"Seriously, does anyone give two shits about that when their child is sailing into Oxbridge?"

Yep. Some of us do.

And you are assuming once again that state schools have bad teachers, poor discipline and an unhelpful ethos.

Yes, I give a shit about that too. Which is the main reason I am hesitating over going private. And also why I would select a private school very carefully. Not all are equal when it comes to encouraging pupils to check their privilege.

I have friends who are fairly leftie. Pre kids spoke critically about grammar schools and private schools. Roll on five years and they have a kid and they’re now investigating private schools. This is after years of lecturing me about how I had an unfair advantage in life as I went to a grammar and it wasn’t fair on all the other poor kids, etc.

Normally I couldn’t give a shit where others send their kids but I reserve an internal eye roll for these two.

Oh yes and they rolled out the “my 3yo is so bright that sadly I don’t think state schools will be able to cater for them” bollocks.

It's not hypocritical at all.

Theresreflowers- its extremely hypocritical. You as a socialist claim to want more equality of opportunity and good schools for all.
By sending your dc to private school you help your child but what about all the other families who can't afford it?

Could poorer parents of children in deprived areas, call themselves socialists if they send their children to private or grammar?

Surely just paying for private is more honest/integrated than lying about your religion?

My friend married a vicar. We were talking about schools and he came out with the brilliant line - "Oh, you're payers, not pray-ers". Which tickled me! (He was heartily sick of the "go to church every week until the minute the school application form is signed brigade, by the way....)

OP - I think you can be a bit leftie and use private schools, but maybe not very leftie and Yes children who attend private schools will have judgment/prejudice against them (just look at some of these responses) but NO I don’t believe they will all turn out spoilt brats - that is down to parenting and making sure that if they show any signs of getting an attitude of feeling superior, it is nipped in the bud and they are made to understand how lucky they are. At the end of the day every parent is entitled to make choices to do whatever they consider will give their children the best chance in life. You do what you think best for your child and don’t stress about what anyone else thinks.

Please can we just remember that not all religious schools are outstanding!!

My DC went to a catholic primary that was judged RI, complete with a change of head and new board of governors. We had to go past our catchment OFSTED outstanding primary school to get there. Btw it was a community school so no religious links.

But the religious aspect was important to us, so we stuck with it. So did lots of other catholic parents, and unlike the whole buying in catchment brigade, we had a very broad range of children at the school from non-English speakers newly moved to the UK to the middle class parents pushing for the school to improve.

Faith schools are usually only good or outstanding if the are oversubscribed. Any school that has some sort of hoop to jump through is likely to have better results than a school that doesn’t. It’s not the faith that makes good faith schools good- it’s the selection.

Being prejudiced against people who went to private school is completely illogical.
I doubt most eight year olds are consulted before being sent off to prep.

popular/oversubscribed religious schools select on the basis of regular church attendance.

Bertrand, this is/was an oversubscribed school.

Hercules because you are perpetuating the system you disagree with. Genuine socialists should donate the fees for private school to the state school their children go to.

We thought we would never put our child in private school but when we moved for work we moved into a local Authority with no 'choice'.
The closest secondary school has horribly serious issues both academically but also with the safety of its students (some horrific incidents) - it gets inspected every year and a couple of years it was multiple times a year.
The other 'choice' has class sizes of 40 and a very limited curriculum, we've also found out they are in serious financial trouble so are cutting current staff to the bone (arts and language teachers mainly)
We will not get into any other schools due to catchment area issues and oversubscription.
We are looking at a local private school as we feel the choice we have locally is so poor that it wouldn't be fair on DS to cut off our noses ...
We still haven't made our minds up but we have had to look, it's not something we have taken lightly.

I dont think real socialism can ever succeed because it does not fit with human nature

Human nature fucks all ideologies. Utopia is Dystopia. Just as pure socialism will not succeed, nor will pure capitalism or any other ...ism that people come up with.

Wonkylegs. You outline why 'Comprehensive' schools (those being that accept anybody without any requirements, whether academic, social or religious) can't work . They are always going to be at the mercy of the lowest common denominator regarding behaviour and academic standards.

I know the majority of posters will flame for that opinion .

Robina’s parents would like her to go to a single-sex
Community High school, even though it is a long way
from her home. Otherwise, though they are not church
Admission to Secondary school in Kent 2018
16
attenders, they would like a church school, or another
single-sex school. She has not taken the Grammar
school tests.
The parents’ preferences are:

1. Single-sex Community High School
2. Church Aided School
3. Community Grammar School for Girls
4. Foundation Grammar School for Girls

See someone in Kent who would prefer a High school to a Grammar school !

(those being that accept anybody without any requirements, whether academic, social or religious) can't work
There are private schools that are/were non-selective and ranked amongst the highest schools in the country and turning students away as over-subscribed.

One such private school has taken 'hopefully' my son from GCSE level 2 Maths/English to level 6 in 18 months !... However, the requirements there are families 'buy' in both monetary and philosophically in to an ethos.