Who saw BBC 2 Grammar schools - who will get in " last night?

[Foxy333]

Watched this last night with interest. We're not in Grammar school area and generally I think it was / is a bad system that works for the top abilities but not for the middle and lower ones. However I've seen my daughter suffer in years 7 to 9 or a comprehensive from not being stretched and teachers concentrating on the most demanding pupils who need lots of help and ignoring the quiet well- behaved pupils who going to pass GCSE's anyway. Often some pupils disrupt the class and the whole class gets punished.

They only set them for 2 subjects and I've heard that's changing in future to one. so I see why a Grammar would suit some. But why cant all schools be good. Is it stricter discipline that's needed?

Felt for the children in the program, so young to face this divisive test.

"I 100% agree with you on the Pupil Premium statistics-it is why Grammar Schools are hugely struggling for funding under the new budget system"

My heart, as you can imagine,is bleeding.

I know the school very well and I can assure you that a lot of the scenarios were contrived for the camera.
It’s made me realise that you cannot actually trust what you see on tv

I believe there should be more effective streaming i the secondary moderns to sort this out

What do you mean? Less academic kids lumped in with the kids who don’t achieve because they’re messing about?

This is the worst aspect of modern stat schools. Hard-working children who do t get high grades end up being a minority in a lower set which consists largely of disaffected, poorly-behaved teenagers whose behaviour is often excused by their parents and against which the school usually has little redress. How much harder school life is if you are a conscientious pupil who finds the work difficult.

Slight cross-post with IheartNiles

I stopped watching after the wee girl said there were jobs that you couldn't do if you didn't go to grammar school, and the wee boy said he was worried if he failed to get into grammar that he'd fail at everything

All our local comps are good, and allow kids to move to sets that suit their ability

You can be dyslexic, like my DS, and be lower set English yet top set Maths

The top sets are challenged more, the bottom sets get smaller classes (and often the better teachers)

It is possible to move up to top sets for late_bloomers(boys) and to move down for kids if that suits them. Because it is 1 school, the top set is not a closed shop.

Good comps is what this country needs!

People who want grammar schools, just want their academic kid in a closed top set and screw the rest.

Good education should be available to ALL kids, not just the top set

My son who is autistic attends a special school but one boy in his class is super bright . He's taken a whole raft of exams early as the school are brilliant and have facilitated this. No way would this child EVER cope in a mainstream school and definitely not a grammar school. I am suspicious of anyone who claims their grammar school has children with SEN. They'd have to be both very clever and cope with the extra pressure these schools bring.

If you think the levels of pupil disruption in selective and non selective schools is similar them you must have a very good experience of non selectives...

As to why parents pay for tutoring for kids who 'can't pass', it's quite simple.
Fear of the shitty non selective alternative.
Because everyone else is paying for tutors- you don't want your child to fail purely because they weren't tutored
Schools refuse outright to discuss a child's performance. In Bexley primaries teachers not only in no way teach for the test (unlike private schools) but also will not comment on whether a child is of selective standard, and instead are more likely to say they are top of the class/ excelling etc. Thereby parents who can afford it end up with tutors for 3 or more years because they think thei4 child has a realistic chance. And the tutor with a financial interest certainly won't tell them otherwise either!

Forgive me if I don’t name my school for ‘outing’ reasons, so you will have to just take my word for it

No need, BertrandRussell provided a useful link, I assume the school is listed here:

www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2016-10-18/49291/

I couldn't face watching this - am in Kent and am awaiting the outcome of our appeal for dd which I think was the most terrifying thing I've ever done!!! 😱

I live in Buckinghamshire which is a totally
selective county, wish I'd realised that before we moved here in our pre-kids days. Parents are tutoring earlier and earlier as the gap between the secondary moderns and grammars widens. It seems a lot of the pro grammar school parents live in an area where there is a comprehensive to fall back on if their child doesn't pass.

."As to why parents pay for tutoring for kids who 'can't pass', it's quite simple.
Fear of the shitty non selective alternative."
Can I just fix that for you? "As to why parents pay for tutoring for kids who 'can't pass', it's quite simple.
Fear"
That's better.

Ooh I haven't seen that. Will look it up. My son is studying for his 11plus at the moment, spent a fair bit of this half term at classes (making a huge fuss of him doing exactly what he wants for the rest of it). He's passed all the practice past tests so is able but will be devastated if he doesn't pass due to nerves on the day. It's s cruel system and I hate it but it's there so we have to buy into it.

Suspicious of what Delores?

Also feeling a bit guilty that we didn't start tutoring our first son earlier. We thought a year of lessons would be plenty but it turns out loads of others are tutoring earlier, so to get a chance of a place at our local grammar schools we've just signed up our youngest in lessons in year 3. I wish we had known before just how early we had to start all this.

Proper streaming needs to occur in comprehensives to meet the needs of all children.
There is also the people like us attitude.
I went to a good comp which in reality was terrible. I am now not prepared to take the same risk with my child.

I hope you mean setting.

My son actually went to Upland, in the 1990s. The children did 11+ practice papers in class during the lead-up to the test in those days, hardly anyone was tutored for it outside school, yet now the schools are not allowed to help them prepare. This is just mad when the private schools spend much of the time doing exactly that!

Another thing is that the grammar schools in the two nearest Kent towns have covenants (I think that's what they're called, forgive my ignorance) which mean they are able to give priority for places to children living in certain parishes (quite rightly imo), whereas Bexley is not allowed to prioritise local children, due to something called the Greenwich Judgement.

As a point of information, in my town the high school has 4.3% statemented children ( the national average) and the grammar 0.3%. Same catchment, remember.

This made me feel sick. I put my son through this last year, hoping he’d be the one in four, as the alternatives weren’t good and he’s a bright boy. He was the one in four, and he’s looking forward to September, but it seems such a high stakes thing to put a 10-year-old through. I wish they didn’t exist, and we could just send kids to schools which put kids in sets. I’ve done independent schools admissions with another dc and that was difficult too, and academically selective, but nowhere near as stressful.

That must have been at least a decade ago green it's got a lot more competitive since then. Would you still be such a fan if they hadn't passed?

I'm a massive supporter of the grammar system.

Well we can see why you love Grammars schools. Perhaps you can tell us why you love secondary moderns?

But green you're a supporter of grammars because your DC got in! Try to think how you might feel if you'd seen the other side of the fence. If they'd (like my eldest DS) failed by 1 Mark? Or like my younger DS just not been interested in the test and performed poorly. Don't both my kids deserve a good education? Or are those who pass more deserving somehow?

Isn't it fairer to make all schools good for All? Rather than some schools good for a minority? And sod all the other kids.