Slightly loathe to start this thread .. but I honestly want to know with regards to Private Education...

[Twiglett]

I can understand when people say they choose private education for their particular child

But I'm not sure I totally understand how to analyse one's child to see if they would be better in private education

what are the key areas of a child to look at (in your opinion) .. and which ones would be better served in a private rather than a state school (again in your opinion)

I'm not trying to be contentious .. I should just like to know how I should look at my 6 year old who's school life is rather a closed book really

It seems to be taken as a given that private schools have smaller class sizes, but I'm sure this isn't always or hasn't always been the case. I went to a large, academically selective, well established independent school, which got and gets very good results, and I was in class sizes of roughly 30 (the range was probably 28-31) from age 8 all the way to the sixth form (when they dropped to about 15 per tutor group). Have independent schools changed? I'm sure my school wasn't particularly unusual then, from what I know of other private schools in the same city at the time.

I suppose in an academically selective school they can get away with that a lot more easily, anyway, because everyone really is working from roughly the same page at any stage. Even fewer children presumably leads to even more benefit (up to a point) but then (from their point of view) you reduce the profits too.

Re class sizes: DS1 at top independent day school - 24 to a class/tutor group. DS2 at local comprehensive - 26 to a tutor group. However DS1 had smaller groups in 6th Form than DS2 would get if he stays in the state sector.

I was a bit suprised, the bit I saw of Wells, too- the crowded bedrooms, the 4 showers for 24 teenaged boys and a science classroom that looked rather like the ones at my severely underfunded state grammar, circe 1973! As an aside, I have a friend who has 2 boys at a lovely looking (from the roadside), 10K a year prep in Cambs and she admitted the 'big house, sweeping lawns and tree lined driveway' were all out of bounds to the boys! The actual classrooms were all the same demountables the rest of us use! Guess all that money must be paying for that world class education...!

Wells is run for the benefit of arty types, so why would you expect decent science labs ?

As for crummy boarding facilities, I'm told by people who know the exact numbers that boarders are usually seriously cross subsidised by day pupils. If you have a lowish % of day pupils that can hurt.

Certainly a big problem with private schools is that they have to pander to the halfwit ideas about education of many British parents.

Too many parents like to see "sweeping lawns", and preferably bits of building that look as medieval as possible. They also like lots of sport. Latin is also seen as a mark of "good traditional education", where it's value to parents (rather than children) is that they do something that state schools don't.

Part of our decision for DS school was the near absence of grass they couldn't walk on.

As to conditions at boarding schools, I think they are often pretty grim. I once stayed at a Catholic boys' boarding school and the beds were narrow, iron and damp. There was damp running down the walls. Friends of mine who went to convent boarding schools report that they were starving half the time. But that might under some character building heading.

i went round a boarding school (minor public) boarding house a week ago (DS2 was considering going as day pupil but we had to be shown full works). Rooms very similar to those at Wells. DH exclaimed "Are there supposed to be two people living in this room?" That is what you get for £23k pa.

And a large part of the problem with state schools is they have to pander to the half-wit fads and edicts from the gvt, none of whose members have ever worked in the real world.

kookaburra, of the MPs I've met, most have had real jobs. (OK it depends on what you mean by "real", but one I used to drink with had killed people with knives, which is pretty real).

As I recall, the single most common former job for MPs was lawyer, but is now teacher, certainly the number has gone up, mostly on the Labour side.
Forgive me for observing that it hasn't made things better.

I'm actually deeply sceptical of the "you only know if you've done been there" school of political criticism. You need to listen to people who've been there, but a horrible problem is your bias in sampling error. Look at all those people on this sort of thread who genuinely seem to believe that state education is good because they see one or two good ones.
Some private are terrible, but aside from supply teachers, few get to see many schools. Don't think any MP has been a temp teacher, and not head either. This is possibly the reason why this government has been so keen to dramatically increase the bureaucracy, since they didn't suffer from it as teachers.

dominiconnor apart from the grass aspect what was the other reasons that were a factor in choosing your childs school? is ist one of those schools which do not have a lot of grass or are the children just generally allowed to feel free on the premises

On the 'grim bedrooms' question - my state schooled DD went to a summer-school at Eton College last year and the boarding house she was accommodated in was Grimsville incarnate.... tiny, grotty room, spartan in the extreme and decor none too good, hard narrow bed. ONE, not nice, bathroom for the whole floor. The common room was equally grot. Maybe these were rooms for the younger Etonians - it was hard to imagine the young Lords and Princelings spending all their school years in such rooms ...

(Actually I'm not having a go at Eton, which gives a bunch of state school kids a wonderful time there every year. It was a nice opportunity for my DD, great food, historic buildings, superb teaching, and some really stretching opportunities, all at very little cost to the parents - none if you can afford none. But oh - those rooms!)

Someone asked (possibly Xenia) a few dozen posts back, if anyone wouldn't send their child to private school if money was no object - I wouldn't.

We could afford it, but I'd never consider it, at least in the current N Ireland system. We still have the 11+, so have excellent grammar schools, and the few private schools are not particularly good, often employing unqualified teachers. The statistics about exam results quoted are not valid for N Ireland, in fact every year N Irish pupils from all social backgrounds do better than in England because of the grammar school system.

On the other hand, secondary schools (non-selective) are mixed - some are truly awful and some are great. Far too many kids leave with no meaningful qualifications.

The 11+ is being scrapped in a few years, but the two types of schools are sort of staying (all a bit up in the air) - parents and primary schools will decide together which is th ebest school for the child - sort of like the German system. This will work if schools have equal resources and status - and if they do, I would have no hesitation in choosing a local, state school for my children, whether it be academic or vocational.

So for me, the question is not private or state, but how the state system works. Children are different and 1 school won't suit everyone.

I hate the word "choice" with regard to education. Especially private education.

The fact that you have to pay for one and not the other will always make it an uneven "choice", and a "choice" that does not exist for many.

It's not like choosing between two different makes of cereal where the price difference may be pence but the quality hugely more.

Would we do it? Yes, we bloody would.

In my experience, people who bang on about how fucking wonderful the comprehensive system is are those who happen to have landed themselves in the best catchments and have no intention of moving.

And it's loth.

I loathe something, but am loth to do it.

Pedants' corner out.

Has that been bugging you for some time Unquiet Dad?

Haven't read all of the thread, but I think if your child is either very bright or needs extra help, they could benefit from a private school as I believe they tend to have smaller classes. If they are average, I am not sure that they would benefit as much. But ds is only 15 months, so these are only my uninformed thoughts at the moment...

Mumpbump - that's about it - unless the stateschools in your area are so dire that you feel your child would not do well/survive in them. But some parents choose private education for snobbish reasons and that's why there are many rubbish independent schools.

NKF - probably, but it seemed an appropriate moment to mention it! I have done so before.