Slightly loathe to start this thread .. but I honestly want to know with regards to Private Education...

[Twiglett]

I can understand when people say they choose private education for their particular child

But I'm not sure I totally understand how to analyse one's child to see if they would be better in private education

what are the key areas of a child to look at (in your opinion) .. and which ones would be better served in a private rather than a state school (again in your opinion)

I'm not trying to be contentious .. I should just like to know how I should look at my 6 year old who's school life is rather a closed book really

each other

actually some of the private schools in this county are well established ones - and they still come lower in the tables than some of the state schools.....

WE looked at a private school for dd depite my strong feelings on the subject as I wanted what was best for her.

The private could offer
More time using computers and dd is a real computer whizz
The facilities and oppurtunites with in the design technology department were amazing and when we went to look at the school dd loved this area in particular.
Dd is very sporty and into her dance she could have done this at school rather than me having to take her to outside classes.

But I was quite disapoited with the style of teaching that was described to me and the defensiveness of the staff when I asked to look at work completed by the kids.

The school lacked some of the sense of community and the special feel that my local church school had. I also wanted a church /community based education for dd which the private option could not offer.

Not the reason I chose private schooling for my DCs, nor have I verified any of the stats the gentleman refers to but nevertheless I though it was an itersting breakdown of exam results should they prove to be a true reflection of the facts!

From The TimesMay 9, 2007

Private v state: discipline and disruptive pupils
Sir, Alan Johnson (letter, May 8 ) celebrates that 93 per cent of children attend state schools. However, the 7 per cent who go to private schools collected 40.2 per cent of A grades scored at A level in 2004, 45.7 per cent of the A grades in maths and 60 per cent of the A grades in modern languages.

Ucas figures for 2005 showed that socioeconomic groups 1 to 4 accounted for 44,559 of top-scoring degree course entrants (Ucas tariff of 420 and above), while socioeconomic groups 5 to 7 account for only 7,370 ? a 6 to 1 ratio in favour of the better off.

A survey by the Centre for Economic Performance showed that social mobility has fallen markedly over time in Britain so that Britain was among the worst of the developed economies studied, with less mobility for a cohort born in 1970 than for a cohort born in 1958.

Many private schools now use international versions of GCSE tests in core subjects, because they consider that the national versions have been dumbed down too much to constitute a useful test. Official statistics now ignore the attainment of pupils in private schools who take those international GCSEs, and no doubt that will reduce, in presentational terms, the ?boost? to private school figures which Mr Johnson acknowledges as real but which he chooses to attribute to ?affluence, changing demography and lifestyle?.

Whatever the unexplained impact of these factors, nothing has happened to the distribution of intelligence throughout the population over the past 40 years. Perhaps the time has come for the Government to recognise that modern comprehensive education is failing, and openly to restore specialist education in competitive schools for the academically gifted.

MICHAEL SWAINSTON London WC2

I'm a teacher married to a teacher. We have worked in one of the most famous private schools in the country, run of the mill public schools and one of the worst public shools. There is no way we would consider private education for our child. No need, no benefit, unless you are not the type of parent to take any responsibility for your child's education. We maintain our child would thrive anywhere because we are willing to do whatever it takes (including 'challenging' him - most people argue their child isn't challenged enough in public schools, we often have our own opinions!) End of the day, it's your money, spend it where you want! Our main problem is; if you choose private, our tax dollars shouldn't contribute - tax is for the schools anyone can attend. Please have faith in your child and your parenting skills. Many students of public education are quite successful!

P.S. Don't let better grades persuade you, we know how they get them!

Lispy - too intriguing. Explain.How do they get them? Apart from not letting children take exams they might not pass. Or is that an urban myth?

Good points in that letter, dogsb. The private schools are getting it right and the state schools get worse and worse. It's a shame.

On the point that some famous private schools get bad exam results they certainly do and they tend to cater for the less clever children. There are plenty of them. I still think their vaule added - academically and sporting etc is better and you have the added bonus of not mixing with people like oops who don't want to mix with you I suppose.

Lispy - how much of your experience has been in UK schools? Just wondering because there is a difference between public schools and state schools, and I wouldn't expect a UK teacher to refer to a state school as a public school or vice versa?

All these very bright but need to be pushed children in private schools might explain why my DH's private school Sixth Formers don't do any work!

I don?t understand the ?community? argument about schools. None of my friends carry knives, disrespect authority or behave in an anti-social manner: why should I want my children to associate with such people? I would much rather that my DC were in an establishment which valued effort and expected their pupils to achieve.
I don?t think that the Comprehensive, all-things-to-all-men approach works. There should be schools for those who are interested in academic subjects and separate schools for those who are not. It is unfair on those who want to learn, and those who don?t, to incarcerate them all together.

PS Note that I didn?t say schools for clever kids, just schools for kids who want to learn. The disruptive element should be catered for somewhere else that does fire their imagination.

I wondered about lipsy's post too. My ex husband worked in state schools and private and public/boarding (part time) so we saw and knew about a huge range and came to the opposite conclusion - brilliant private school product avvailable to buy because of my earnings (and for a time virtually a free place for our son because of his father's job) and mcuh worse on just about any scale state provision - no contest and given private schooling is how I was educated anyway and fits with all the people we know and my own political views I am probably as counter the lipsy view as it is possible.

I am sure had I been impoverished and not married to a teacher who could get free private schooling etc I would have obviously routed out the best state school provision I could find but I don't know how anyone can be like a vicar I was reading about - his mission was to help the very disadvantaged and disruptive - moved his wife and daughter to a very very bad council estate and put her into one of the worst state schools in the land. Poor child.

I don't think you can look at the whole sector tbh i.e. private vs state. I really think you have to do it on a school by school basis - going round a school, getting a feel for the place, watching how the children are interacting with the staff and with each other etc. There are some private schools that aren't very good just as there are brilliant state schools and vice versa.

wychbold .. you wouldn't happen to read the Daily Mail would you?

Aloha, I am absolutely appalled at the suggestion that private schools don't let in special needs children and that this is somehow a good thing. It simply is not true. Most independent schools have excellent special needs provision, it is only behavioural problems which are sometimes excluded. I can't imagine ever choosing a school that didn't have such a provision.

I almost agree foxinsocks. But there is no such thing as a good school. What we need is differentiation so that we can find the school that is best for each child. The best school for Wayne Rooney is not the same as the best school for Stephen Hawking.
The Govt started off down this road by allowing schools to specialise but then, ridiculously, allowed only very limited selection based on that Specialism.

Twiglett: no, the Torygraph!

lispy, how do you account for the statistics as regards private versus state education in this country?.

7% of all students attend private school and yet they account for 47% of A's at A level in Maths, 60% of A's in Modern Languages and 40% of A's overall. I'm not crowing that private education is 'better', rather I think those numbers belie a shocking, if not criminal betrayal of 93% of the population. I just wish people could swallow their prejudices and learn from the private sector.

my son is about to transfer to y6 in an independent school - he has a statement and they are very happy to meet his needs

we chose to send him there rather than to our very well-regarded local comp as it has half the number of children and about 4 times the amount of space, which means a lot to ds1 as he has Tourette's Syndrome and associated anxiety and being in a crowded place being jostled by hundreds of other kids would send him into meltdown

there's also a lot more pastoral care and masses amounts of sports

dino, of course some schools won't accept SEN children but the vast majority do as in fact does Gatehouse. Not sure where you got your info from but it is a non-selective school and defintiely has a few SEN children curently enrolled.

If you are you saying that the state sector has nothing to learn then how do you account for the fact that private schools account for 40% of A's at A level and yet only 7% of candidates. Don't you think the remaining 93% of the populationa re being short changed?