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Private / Public Schools and Brexit

178 replies

jellycat1 · 23/03/2018 10:50

I read the Education boards a lot as we are planning to put our two sons through the pre-prep/prep/public school route. We haven't decided exactly where, but it will either be day Prep in SW London - so on the crazy 7/8+ bus, or a Surrey / Berkshire area day/boarding prep to 13.
My question is to current parents - what is your sense of the effect, if any, of Brexit on the demand for places at the selectives / super selectives? Do you think it may soften demand a bit or have no noticeable effect? We are overseas currently and all my friends' kids are older, so I feel a bit in the dark about it all - but then aren't we all...! Sigh...!
I know nobody has the answer right now but just interested in your thoughts really and what you hear in your schools.
TIA.

OP posts:
LondonMum8 · 30/03/2018 15:07

@peteneras

TalkinPeece · 30/03/2018 15:49

Peterenas
Which immigrants is it that you want gone from the UK ?

  • the nurses
  • the doctors
  • the hospital porters and cleaners
  • the teachers
  • the teaching assistants
  • the care workers
  • the scientists
  • the chefs
  • the agricultural labourers
  • the hospitality staff

Its just that the UK has always been able to restrict the number of EU people who settle here.
It just chose not to (and the UKBA has crap records)

Brexit will not in itself reduce the number of immigrants coming here to work
it will just change their skin tone.

The ones not coming here to work of the EU variety can be barred from entry or sent home under existing EU rules

For Private and Public schools, the loss of access to cheap support staff may have an impact that will reduce their profit margins.
How my heart bleeds Grin

TalkinPeece · 30/03/2018 15:52

PS
I'm a non EU migrant who had to spend a sodding fortune to get my residency rights (like over £2000)
It is not a process to take lightly.
The people that the UK needs will not jump through the Home Office hoops if they have better options elsewhere.

whatwouldrondo · 30/03/2018 19:16

I am very impressed that Paternas has actually heard of ASEAN and has such an interest in matters concerning Asia, but clearly not enough to have actually learnt a great deal about it. I have lived and worked in Asia and I am spending more time out here thanks to their beloved Brexit ( not a good thing for the UK economy, both DH and I's businesses in the services and financial sector are shifting focus here as a result. ) and have had quite an involvement in ASEAN and so I am familiar with just how much they look to the EU as a model for their educational, scientific, economic etc networks which they recognise as a massive benefit to their members though not one attainable by countries with such diverse economies and political structures. As an example Aung San was supposed with the leader of Laos to be leading a new thrust to modernity, and asserting ASEAN independence from Chinese influence, but her flame of hope is most definitely extinguished.

As discussed a lot of the Chinese pupils in British boarding schools are Hong Kong Chinese and I can assure you that most Hong Kong Chinese have heard of the EU and since many are would be investors have taken a keen interest in Brexit too. General sentiment is that Britain is about to get comeuppance for its hubris, and it is a comeuppance many will enjoy for obvious reasons, a sentiment magnified in China who have grown up on bitterness as a result of the propaganda around the Opium wars, not entirely justified but there you go . At the same time they are of anticipating bargains, having themselves experienced the profiteering of Legatum (the " thinktank" backed by the disaster capitalists who profited from the uncertainty around the handover, and that now has May's ear and has recruited all the useful idiots in the ERG on the right wing of the Tory party to their cause ).

Brands are very important in Chinese culture and I dont forsee Winchester and Wycombe Abbey losing out anytime soon as a result of the damage to Britain's brand but the lesser boarding schools, when Australia is joining the US in vying for pupils and British franchises are opening up on their doorstep? I remember when Dulwich opened the first ill fated franchise in Phuket and even that dented the British boarding school market, the brand of these schools never really recovered from that mess but I expect they will do and certainly all the International Schools in Hong Kong are massively oversubscribed, it is no longer the norm to send your child to Blighty for secondary education.

Perhaps Paternas is aware that Xi who looks like being around for a while now branded Brexit a failure of good and stable government, something that was reported widely in the media, they might be surprised at how many Chinese people are aware of it....

peteneras · 01/04/2018 10:32

”Please show me where on this board and indeed anywhere at MN that I am “anti-European””

That was a gallant attempt, LondonMum8 but I’m afraid it’s all huff and puff - nothing but a load of waffle. Because you could not find a shred of evidence that I’m anti-European. What’s more, you then began to fabricate some so-called “evidence” by quoting a deleted post of mine, as if there was evidence there. In this week of Easter, this is called bearing false witness. My post may be deleted but I can upload it again should there be a demand.

Yes, absolutely no denial some of my posts were downright rude but only directed to one particular poster by name who started to be rude to me in the first place for no apparent reason. You didn’t mention that her/his post was similarly deleted by MN, did you? So what are you on about with this double standard?

On the contrary, I can prove I am pro-European (not pro-EU) by way of a previous post when I mentioned that I buy all my household products including my last two new cars, ‘Made in Germany’ (Sun 29 Oct 17) This was a time when the EU was threatening to “punish” us for daring to go Brexit!

peteneras · 01/04/2018 10:39

If you don’t have anything constructive to say, TalkinPeece, then please don’t post utter nonsense here just for the sake of posting for you might just show yourself up as a fool. A very attractive list of immigrant professionals/workers you listed there and it may surprise you that I welcome them all whether their skin tone is green, purple or psychedelic. It’s only that citizens from the Commonwealth including the Gurkhas from Nepal, etc – generations of people who had fought and died for Britain in all her wars in the last 200 years or more – are made to “jump through the Home Office hoops” whilst EU citizens who had done x*-all can just walk in, which is what I find hard to digest.

“I’m a non EU migrant who had to spend a sodding fortune to get my residency rights (like over £2000)”

And I don’t know what you’re complaining about. I know of people spending 10 times or more that amount and still not get to see the shores of Britain ever. This seems to be the trouble with migrants who come here expecting everything for free.

WeeLilySoSo · 01/04/2018 11:39

generations of people who had fought and died for Britain in all her wars in the last 200 years or more – are made to “jump through the Home Office hoops” whilst EU citizens who had done x*-all can just walk in, which is what I find hard to digest.

Lol! Grin you do realise why FoM exists don't you? There are huge economic benefits being are part of the EU and part of a FoM system, which don't exist in regards to immigrants from outside of the EU. It's called macro economics peteneras Wink Wink Smile.

peteneras · 01/04/2018 12:08

Call it what you will WeeLily, I call it discrimination against the yellow and brown Asians and black Africans from Commonwealth countries. ASEAN has similar goals like the EU and they don't have the FoM nonsense as in other economic blocks throughout the world.

TalkinPeece · 01/04/2018 16:39

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Movablefeast · 01/04/2018 17:04

I read a comment earlier regarding an increase in German interest in UK education. The Germans are very concerned about the tariffs Trump is planning for cars and sophisticated manufactured products from the EU. If you look at Der Spiegel International they have an article on the "end of German prosperity" due to 25% + of their cars and other products going to the US so the Germans may not be planning on splashing their cash.

wakemeupbefore · 01/04/2018 20:06

Pete.... still trundling on as usual, well, good going my dear, no-one can say you're overly subtle. Perhaps just a little off your rocker or very confusd when penning this :

'Long term, the EU will become absolutely insignificant because they would be consigned to history!'

You clearly mixed up UK and EU, however, it'll be forgiven. We are nice this way. Hmm

mathanxiety · 02/04/2018 03:50

You can't be pro-European and anti-EU. That is axiomatic.

But you're not even 'pro-European' - you believe in British Empire Part II.

Take a look at this:
www.migrationpolicy.org/news/asean-works-foster-mobility-highly-skilled-region-review-mutual-recognition-arrangements
"As ASEAN Works to Foster Mobility of Highly Skilled in Region, Review of Mutual Recognition Arrangements Suggests Ways to Maximize Potential"

WASHINGTON — Seeking to encourage the flow of skilled professionals among Member States, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) signed agreements over nearly a decade meant to speed the mutual recognition of professional and academic qualifications in a number of occupations.

These mutual recognition arrangements (MRAs), which set standardized rules across Member States for recognition of credentials and limit or eliminate national discretion to assess foreign qualifications — and thus reduce roadblocks to the movement and employment of professionals across the region — span the tourism sector and six regulated occupations (accountancy, architecture, dentistry, engineering, medicine and nursing). Though the agreements share nearly identical objectives, a new Migration Policy Institute (MPI) and Asian Development Bank (ADB) report explores the significant divergence of these MRAs in terms of institutional structures, requirements and procedures...

...The MRAs range from the open framework in the tourism sector, which provides a fully automatic recognition process, to the virtually closed, destination country-led frameworks in the dental, medical and nursing professions, which offer minimal opportunity for recognition.

“The greatest achievement of the ASEAN MRAs so far is rather indirect: The signing of these agreements has inspired a significant capacity-building effort in the less-advanced ASEAN Member States to upgrade professional regulation and training standards,” said MPI Senior Policy Analyst Dovelyn Rannveig Mendoza, the report’s lead author.

Implementation of the MRAs in engineering and architecture has driven the creation of regulatory bodies and the adoption of new professional standards in Cambodia, Lao PDR and Myanmar. Similarly, the MRA-driven harmonization of training requirements in nursing is promoting higher qualifications standards in countries such as Vietnam.

Among the areas to further maximize the benefits of MRAs, the report notes the potential to link the MRAs with existing mobility arrangements in the region and to create synergy with the ASEAN Qualification Regional Framework and apply the lessons learned to the negotiations of future MRAs.

This article points out that demographic pressures drive emigration:
www.eastasiaforum.org/2013/05/27/international-migration-in-asias-demographic-transition/
So who migrates in Asia, and how do they do it? International migration data is generally poor, but it is possible to make some generalisations about the trends. First, women are increasingly active migrants — in several important flows they constitute the majority. Second, the ‘migration industry’ — made up of agents, travel providers, government officials and middlemen of various types — is growing rapidly. Third, the government is increasingly important in influencing both immigration and emigration. And fourth, there may now be as many undocumented migrants as those who entered foreign countries through authorised channels.

In the past two decades, many ordinary people in Asia, not just the elite, have come to consider whether moving overseas will improve their quality of life. Many people are also moving further away from their homes: there has been a significant increase not only in the movement between Asia-Pacific nations but also out of and in to the region. Asia’s migration is forced and unforced, documented and undocumented, permanent and non-permanent, work-related and not work-related.

Arguably the most important reason for this migration boom is the growing demographic differences between countries. The Asia Pacific contains both high-income and low-income economies and their demographic trajectories have differed. On the one hand, high-income economies are experiencing low (and, in a few cases, negative) natural increases in population because of an extended period of low fertility. This is leading to slow natural growth. Eventually, the number of people of working age is projected to decline — Japan is already experiencing this phenomenon. On the other hand, in low-income economies of the region, fertility decline has been more recent, although it has also been dramatic. Prolonged periods of very low fertility leads to a decline in the size and ageing of the workforce which can drive migration.

There is lots of movement of unskilled labour among ASEAN states, and increased emigration of both unskilled and skilled labour is inevitable. It will be the next nettle that ASEAN grasps, and it will be grasped - the arrival of Donald Trump and his protectionist regime have shown ASEAN how important it is to work together towards ever-increasing integration on all levels.

This is a lesson apparently lost on Leave voters in the UK, but not on French voters who decided not to cast their lot with the anti-EU Marine LePen who got her arse handed to her on a plate, and Netherlands voters who decided not to vote for that anti-EU Dutch loser, Whatshisface. I've forgotten his name - he is history now.

whatwouldrondo · 02/04/2018 12:26

Math Whilst I agree that ASEAN has focused on easing and encouraging free movement of business and other professionals, I think it would be hard to draw parallels with the situation for unskilled labour. In fact comparison actually highlights one of the strengths of the EU, it’s championing and encouragement of individual rights across Europe as demonstrated in the Brexit negotiations, in contrast to the UK’s willingness to use individuals from the EU and British citizens living there as bargaining chips and subject them to the hostile environment the Home Office has created in relation to immigration, even towards immigrants who bring with them the skills we need or British citizens who fall in love and marry non British citizens. (One of the ironies of the arguments put forward by Brexiteers like Paterneras that it is all about not discriminating against those coming from the rest of the world is that the discrimination is absolutely embedded in the Home Office, that culture won’t change, it will extend . I know British citizens who are exiled in Asia because their wives -it is sexist as well as racist - are denied not just the right to live in the U.K. with them but also the right to an extended visa to visit family beyond the 3 week tourist visa. This includes professional women with careers in Asia. The assumption that people would actually want to come here from places like India given the culture fostered by the Home Office is somewhat undermined by the fact that students coming from India to study in the U.K. has declined by 50% since the didgraceful illegal rounding up and detaining and deporting of overseas students on the pretext of a language test irregularity. Whatever Paterneras’ personal feelings we are hostile to those who come to our shores to contribute to our economy.)

As far as ASEAN is concerned the disparity in economic and political structures means that the migration of unskilled labour which developed countries like Singapore and Thailand need is fraught with abuses of basic rights. There are for instance 2m Burmese migrants in Thailand who are subject to exploitation, discrimination (often arrested as scapegoats when crimes are committed such as the murder of the two British backpackers) and even denial of basic health and safety protections.

This is relevant to the schools issue because a lot of these British school franchises are actually managed by local businesses with minimal involvement from the parent schools who are risking their brand as a result, which is why schools In the U.K. still have the the edge in terms of marketing. Dulwich International College was damaged by local mismanagement and corruption which failed to provide the pupils with the Dulwich experience parents expected.

LondonMum8 · 02/04/2018 13:35

Excellent responses above, I would just add that while @peteneras was apparently within his rights to belittle European countries and comparing and EU and Asian immigration, the developing parts of Asia are not quite generally in the same league in terms of personal wealth. Let's look at GDP PPP/capita.

Germany $48.5k
UK $42k
Poland $27k
China $15.5
India $6.5k
Pakistan $5.5k

Two points should be clear: FoM within the EU makes sense given reasonably close levels of wealth. Megawealthy elite and the privileged castes notwithstanding, the average Asian outside of Japan/SK/China/HK/TW/SNG is still strikingly poor compared to the average European.

As for military contributions to Britain, i guess it's worth mentioning the sizable Polish forces operating under British command during WWII, including the pilots who made significant contributions during the Battle of Britain.

LondonMum8 · 02/04/2018 13:37

Phone edit fail.
Scratch "and comparing and EU and Asian immigration"

TalkinPeece · 02/04/2018 13:44

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LondonMum8 · 02/04/2018 13:52

Not sure, the question I guess is what you mean by "many" and the statistical basis of the claim :) If true in some cases, that would be a particularly shameful example of "pulling the ladder up" behaviour apparently also exhibited by @peteneras.

CraftyGin · 02/04/2018 13:54

I doubt Brexit will have much on an impact. Overseas students are from China, Russia, or Latin America.

LondonMum8 · 02/04/2018 14:07

@CraftyGin I guess it's always good to jump in and add one's 2p, but if you read the thread a little you should find a link to stats which prove you are wrong.

LondonMum8 · 02/04/2018 14:08

@TalkinPeece BTW Remember that Polish aristocrat who challenged Farage to a duel? :)

Dapplegrey · 02/04/2018 14:50

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TalkinPeece · 02/04/2018 15:17

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Dapplegrey · 02/04/2018 15:44

Thank you talkin.

Draylon · 02/04/2018 17:34

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happygardening · 02/04/2018 17:47

I going jump to the defence of the Gurkhas I worked closely alongside their regiment for over two years they are the nicest people you could ever meet, genuine polite, hardworking and punctual. Many went on and left the army and were highly sort after because of their ethos of hard work. They are considered by the usually white officers of their battalion be the toughest soldier in the army and their motto is “Better to die than be a coward” many suffered horrendous injuries in both Afghanistan and Iraq.
So please don’t insult them by making these type of unpleasant generalisations.

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