Would you consider secondary schools when buying a house with a currently 3 year old DD?

[Absofrigginlootly]

DH, DD and I have been living overseas in the states for nearly 3 years. We're planning to come back to the uk this summer and after moving every 1-3 years for the past 18 years I am ready to SETTLE!!

I want a house for us to live in for the next 15 or so years to see DD and any future sibling through school.

The area we are looking at (dictated somewhat by job) is about 10 miles north of a nice city in the countryside. It has many (about 15-20) good/outstanding primary schools (as rated by OFSTED obvs so I appreciate this is highly subjective) in the area which are in catchment and because they're all small local village primaries they are all undersubscribed so I think the chances of getting a place at one are pretty good.

My issue is that the 2 or 3 nearest secondary schools within catchment are currently rated as inadequate/requiring improvement. There are several good and one outstanding secondary schools further away which appear to be in catchment but obviously these are oversubscribed.

How far in advance would you be considering school options when buying a house when your D.C. were only 3.5....??

We have flexibility about where we live at this point and could choose to buy in the city where there are good/outstanding primary and secondary schools (although obvs these are oversubscribed).... but my heart is in the countryside. I grew up in the countryside and lived in cities my adult life. I'm craving the simple, outdoorsy childhood for my D.C. that I was fortunate to experience.

Anyone who has been through both primary and secondary school application process - any advice?

Should we be thinking more about the immediate future i.e. live somewhere we like now and find a good school for next January applications (DD will be due to start September 2019) and just deal with secondary school later?

Or should we be playing the long game here? I really don't want to move again!

Although obviously I know life can't be planned to perfection I'm just so looking forward to being settled!

MN jury.... WWYD?

Ps, Posted in AIBU then found this forum (I was looking at the wrong bit of the education board before ) in case anyone wondered about the duplicate

Yes definitely worth factoring in now if you don’t want to move again. The years whizz by and you will likely regret it if you ignore it now. Things can change but they don’t usually turn around so beyond recognition so fast....

I'd keep an eye on it but might not be top priority. Things change... schools/reports change, your DC's needs change and you can't be sure what will/will not suit till they grow up a bit.

But knowing you have good ones in your area makes for a less stressful primary school journey. Houses in catchment of good secondaries will also hold its value well.

I'd definitely consider secondary at this point - it will come very quickly.

Moving again for secondary seems like a bad idea, and you've said you want to settle. Other options:

1. Local secondaries might improve. Do visit to get a feel for what they are really like, but I'd be wary - especially since you have the choice!

1. Get DD into one of the further away secondaries. Check the furthest distance last year with the school or council, but this may shrink: distances have roughly halved in the last 6 years where I live, despite schools adding classes

Be aware that your DD may resist travelling a long way to go to a different school from her friends at 11. Do many kids in the village travel to the further schools?

1. Is private an option for secondary, and are there some good ones within reach?

I don't understand all your talk of "catchments" you need to look at actual admissions criteria.
I would also look at news stories and any information on the council websites. What are the future plans for secondary schools? Are they going to need more or fewer schools in the future.? Are there any new developments in the area? What are the failing schools doing to turn things around?

And an awful lot changes in 8-10 years, unfortunately.

YES!! We are in an awful rut at the mo with DD in yr5 and the realisation that the secondary schools in our catchment are terrible. And I mean terrible as in gangs, violence and awful results - not just to my standards.

I say Not Really.

Yes, have it in mind if there's 2 options almost the same but don't
let a school, which may or may not be good in 8 years, which DC may not may not get into dictate where you live for 15 years.

A lot can change with schools - our brand new, outstanding, pushed house prices up by 40k school is now Requires Improvement 5 yrs after it opened.

Other good ones change their admission criteria quite regularly - currently our good ones use a lottery.

You might make massive compromises on daily life for a school which you don't even get into!

I grew up in the countryside ... I'm craving the simple, outdoorsy childhood for my D.C. that I was fortunate to experience.

As your children grow and you experience, second-hand, their lives, you realise how much life has changed since your childhood. Are you remembering a country life that no longer exists? Fewer people work the land (it's mechanised), there are fewer doctors/shops/pubs/buses.
As a car-driving adult, the remoteness may not be a problem but, as an only child with no means of transport, it may be a different story for your DD. It's good that you are trying to plan ahead for her education but don't forget her social life too.
You can't guarantee about secondary schools but, due to socio-economic factors, there are some areas where you know that schools will always be good/bad (delete as appropriate). If a school has been acceptable for the last twenty years then it will probably carry on being that way - the Headteacher has a large influence but so does his "customer base".
As long as nothing is going to change dramatically in the next few years (major employer closes down, major infrastructure being built, that sort of thing) then you can probably predict which will be the good schools when your DD comes to secondary school age.

We bought for primary and wished we had considered the whole package for secondary too. It caused issues for secondary so yes, I would definitely consider it.

But if you do have to move for secondary make sure you don't move too late (to miss applications) or too early (if that then involves a commute from your new home to current primary school).

Those years roll round much faster than you think.

Thanks for all the replies, very helpful..... I think we're going to have to consider secondary by the general consensus. Darn! I'd fallen in love with a particularly beautiful village! Oh well back to the drawing board.

I think with DD being 3.5 if we have another DC then they will be minimum 4 years apart so will definitely have one at secondary whilst the younger still in primary. I don't want the hassle of disrupting younger one too much to move, or trying to get 2 DC to 2 different schools far apart

I guess I can mention the area as nothing is set in stone yet and may all fall through and end up somewhere else at this stage

We're looking at the city of York and surrounding countryside.... anyone with area specific advice??

Also, probably a stupid question blush but I feel like i don't really know how it works and having been put the country for nearly 3 years I feel even more cut off..... but how did you choose your DC's primary school when you're in the catchment area for several? Do they run open days? Would those be in the autumn 2018 for January 2019 applications if starting September 2019??

Yes!

I would rent for a while when you first come back to be honest. You need to get more of a feel for what you want in a new area by actually living there. I speak from experience of getting this a little bit wrong .

We then moved again about four years later and moved to a house just in time to apply for primary for the oldest. All three kids then walked to primary and now walk to secondary.

York is a lovely area. Enjoy it!

I would also recommend looking at the admissions information on the council website - it will usually show the furthest distance away that got in the year (or more) before.

Yes we plan to rent first... just want to do a bit of research about catchment areas to make sure we rent in an area we want DD to go to primary school so we can go ahead and apply (and know that buying in the same area we are happy with secondary options)

I have a four year old and a two year old and we are looking to move in the next two years to be in a better secondary catchment as ours is failing. We will have to deal with in year transfers and a lot of stress. Definitely consider it now, much easier now than later.

Yes I would if private was definitely off the table.

Have you had a look in & around Strensall? It has a very good - Ofsted outstanding primary (Robert Wilkinson) and as matters stand is in range for Huntington School (Ofsted outstanding secondary).

Findaschool is useful for finding out what options are available in any particular area.

If you don't want to move again then definetly take the secondary schools into account. We've bought our house in an area where the secondary is okay but are planning to move before DC starts secondary.

I would consider it, definitely. And did consider it when we moved house when our children were 1 and 3 (only 2 when we made the decision). We ruled out any location that was not within catchment of a state secondary school that we felt happy with. My father (retired secondary head teacher himself) even suggested we contact secondary schools and ask to have a look round! I thought that was taking it too far - but we did visit some primaries.

If you have no plans to move area again otherwise then it totally makes sense to take the long term into account, even if ultimately you decide to prioritise the short term (people are right, nothing is certain, things change). Moving house is incredibly expensive these days. Even if you decide to up-size later, if you are happy in a village then you won't want to start again in terms of friendships etc.

I'm so glad we took secondaries into account, and would absolutely have hated to have to re-think location for schools at age 11.

Are you sure there are no areas that would work for you both in terms of travel to work, and primary and secondary schools (and give you the village life you want)?

I wouldn't consider high schools at that age, a lot can change in 8 or so years. I've got two local high schools, within 10 years one went from satisfactory to good for a while then to outstanding and within 6 years the other went from good to requires improvement.

Are you sure there are no areas that would work for you both in terms of travel to work, and primary and secondary schools (and give you the village life you want)?

I don't know.... there probably are but I literally know nothing about the area of york as I'm from the south of the UK. Lived near Leeds for 6 months in my early 20s and visited York for the day once but that was it!!

All my searching is online.... anyone who know of villages outside of york that are still in the catchment areas for the good/outstanding secondary schools in york city please speak up!!!

Anyone??

I suggested Strensall upthread - not sure whether you have already considered it?

Yes sorry, I looked at strensall but it seems rather like a small town than a village to me?? Does it cause any trouble having the army base so close do you know?

The area/village I really liked was Sutton on the Forest, such a beautiful little village full of period houses - that's the sort of thing I'm ideally after... any ideas?

I thought you were talking about York. It's a great place to live - I spent a year there in the mid 90s. But COLD. Which means in winter, you could get cut off, or at least you have to be ready to drive in rather unpleasant conditions. I'd not want to live in the countryside up there, and I see you're from the south of England so you might not appreciate the difference in the winters between the south and Yorkshire. I even find Edinburgh warmer than Leeds or York!

I would really consider living in the city itself. But I am not you and you may think I am being a southern softie (which I am, northern born but southern bred!).