I've read here on mnet recently that ..."The cost of private education is state education."

[Bubble99]

The problem is, IMO, no parent wants to be the one who puts their child into a failing school to raise the standards for future children.

I live in an area where the state primary schools are some of the best in the country but the secondary schools have the highest truancy rates in the UK and each OFSTED report for these schools mentions poor pupil behaviour and results.

The reason seems to be that involved and supportive parents use the primary schools but opt out of the secondary schools to go private by hook or by crook.

The result is that, as the local secondary schools are undersubscribed, they are then 'opened up' to children in neighbouring boroughs where parental involvement/interest seems to be less.

It is cyclical. Poor attendance/behaviour and results mean that local parents will not choose to send their children to their local school.

Actually we did have a choir...
We had a superb music teacher called Mr. Peck, who although slight of build managed to intimidate people who later grew up to run criminal gangs into singing properly, and there were no disciplne issues at all.
His successor (improbably also called Mr. Peck), came that close to starting a riot at a carol practice, and the school choir died that day, tough staggered on in a zombied form for a little while.

To an extent they have helped shape my view of education that good teachers can make an enormous difference, but that most graduates simply ain't got the right stuff.

Both DW and I suffered a little from being the smartest person in our year, with her it was a very much smaller gap because she went to a middle class state school.
Actually, you obviously know what that means don't you ?
When I say a state school is middle class, no one fails to understand it, or believes that such a thing is impossible or a contradiction in terms.
Why is that ?
Because, as I have personally experienced, the government, quite independently of which party is in power is quite happy for kids with poor parents to have their lives blighted by crap schools.
That's not caused by politicians keeping their kids out of the state system, it's caused by the fact that politicians can get their kids into good state schools, and avoid the toxic ones.

DC, are you serious that three children in your year were murdered by other children at the school? Or have I misunderstood what you mean by "3 of my year didn't make it to the end of school alive"?

You can understand parents shipping children back to grandparents in Jamaica to avoid some of these schools and to get a proper education (compared to what they get in the worst inner London schools anyway).

idlemum. Your post has summed up my experience of secondary state education perfectly.

I had awful experiences in school too although more at the hands of teachers than the pupils. There were no bullies as it had been beaten out of us from about age 4 by the teachers. My primary school was tiny - two teacher to teach 8 classes. Bad luck for me as I had a vindictive teacher for 4 years. She only valued academic ability and if you fell short you were soundly thrashed. I remember once she was having a good go at one of the slower boys holding him by the arm and hitting him in the back/bottom with such force the two were sent twirling around in circles.

The reason I remember this incident so vividly is because the boy's dieing mother came to the door and saw it all trough the glass panels. Imagine that knowing you were dieing and knowing your beloved son was at the mercy of this mad woman. She only livid a couple of months after that.

SO you see by the time we got to secondary we were too afraid to do anything let alone be a bully. Both schools valued academic success over everything and my love of sport was not to something ot be valued. I was a reluctant pupil scared I suspect by the abuse. Three of my siblings are academically successful although two are alcoholics. My son is very academic he goes to the local average state school but he is not beaten by his teachers and he is not bullied by the other kids and his current teacher is a big fan of his so everything is rosy at the moment. One of the things I like about his school is the social mix. One of his friends dad is a published historian, one a refuge from Somalia and the other's dad will soon be off to prison. Anyway you can never get it right can you cos your parents fuck you up no matter what we do.

Xenia from speaking ot one Jamaican woman her schooling was along the same lines as mine. My experiences come from rural Ireland with a good dash of religion thrown in and academically you probably could not find better. It had a mix of posh folk, farming folk ,poor and dirt poor and all were expected to achieve academic excellence.

What they did not encourage was artistic endeavour, sporting prowess or a questioning mind if it were to ask to many questions about the Vatican and birth control.

I went to primary school in Ireland, drosophilia, and mine was just like yours .

It was a great relief to escape to England when I was 10 from that point of view, although educational standards were a lot lower.

True. Some of those being sent back for a proper education in Jamaica may mean they want the discipline which may not be good. When I was little I was taught by very kind gentle Montessori trained nuns wielding guitars in the free- love post Vatican II 1960s in England until I changed schools at 10.

I don't think I'd seek out children of prisoners frankly for my children. I have been very happy they have been educated with people of all nationalities and faiths and some really struggling to manage schools fees and very few at all what I would call "rich" but I didn't want the social mix someone mentioned below nor more importantly really the academic mix which I hadn't enjoyed at my school except I did get a lot of practice at explaining complex things carefully to people so they could understand but that was a minor blessing.