I've read here on mnet recently that ..."The cost of private education is state education."

[Bubble99]

The problem is, IMO, no parent wants to be the one who puts their child into a failing school to raise the standards for future children.

I live in an area where the state primary schools are some of the best in the country but the secondary schools have the highest truancy rates in the UK and each OFSTED report for these schools mentions poor pupil behaviour and results.

The reason seems to be that involved and supportive parents use the primary schools but opt out of the secondary schools to go private by hook or by crook.

The result is that, as the local secondary schools are undersubscribed, they are then 'opened up' to children in neighbouring boroughs where parental involvement/interest seems to be less.

It is cyclical. Poor attendance/behaviour and results mean that local parents will not choose to send their children to their local school.

Doesn't that suggest the old motto of organised labour is true - we can do much more collectively than we can individually? Maybe if a group of parents who are keen to support the school got together, things might begin to change?

Hear hear Edam! If your local school does poorly, then get together with other parents and work to change it. You will be an inspiration to your kids and will change other kids lives for the better.

(That's the ideal though, have to confess we moved out of London so we didn't have to face the whole 'OMG is ds going to get shot' thing. To an area with good schools and high house prices.)

Yes, edam, you're right.

My DS1 is one of 32 children ( only 16 in each class, so he's well up to speed) in the original cohort of a new PFI primary school. He's in year 4 and the playground talk is now turning to options and ideas for secondary schools.

I'm a Parent Governor and have also set up two daycare nurseries within the borough. I've had parents asking me recently whether Mr Bubble and I would think about setting up a tutorial college/ parents co-op secondary school.

My initital thought was to call a meeting with year 4 parents and suggest that we all use the local secondary school.

I watched a programme a while ago with Fiona Millar (alistair sp? Campbells partner) about this kind of thing and I was V impressed.

Have you visited the local secondary in question, talked to the staff, do you know what it's really like?
How big is it? If you succeed in motivating other parents, how much of an impact do you think you can really have?

I have to say hats off to you, and I admire you greatly; but I wouldn't do it.

Bump

Wouldn't do what, roisin. Agitate the masses?

This is why Labour used to talk about abolishing private education, isn't it? If parents didn't have the choice of opting out, everyone would have to go to the state schools, and failing schools just wouldn't be tolerated.

Yes I have, roisin. And I've read their 'policies.'

Policies are meaningless, IMO, unless the people implementing them have some cahones.

A child was bullied to the point that, when locked in a cupboard for the fifth time, she called her mum on her mobile, who called the school, who were on answerphone initially and then spouted their 'anti-bullying policy' and denied that any such bullying was taking palce.

The mother then 'phoned the police who went to the school and found the child crying in a cupboard.

Sounds great, doesn't it?

This made it into the local press, BTW.

Or maybe more parents would chose to home ed or move and push up house prices even further in certain areas, so the bad schools problem would still exist.

oh crikey

Bubble I have no objection to agitating the masses: but I have to be honest at the moment I might join in agitating the masses, but I wouldn't actually join them when it comes to that crunch decision of where to send my ds1 to secondary school.

My ds1 is in yr5 so it's a decision that's looming for us.

Bubble, you are so right. Who wants to make an example of their own child at the expense of that child's education? Certainly not I! I'm with you. I like the primary schoold in the borough, but no way no how over my dead body are my kids going to state secondary schools... but then I haven't got as many to support as you do.

I was saying to DHJ just the other night that after primary school, we might ponder a move to Kent (which we like) if it meant the kids could go to grammar schools. My plan is to dream about Tiffin, and then probably end up paying for private.

And if the buuble family starts a private school, you better make is mixed/co-ed so both of my kids can go!!

oh bubble wouldn't it be great if you could do that! I do think that if a group of supportive parents could transfer on mass from a good primary school to a secondary school they could transform it.

Incidentally, I went to a top performing private school where the lovely sixth formers locked a pregnant teacher in the cupboard for a joke.

I think that parental involvement can make a significant difference at primary level where parents helping with reading, or in the classroom etc can make a difference as well as being there at the start and end of the day where they can speak with teachers or observe their child's interaction with others.

I am less convinced that parental influence extends to other children at secondary. You may still have significant influence over your own child, but your day to day interaction with the school decreases. I think that the difference in size of secondary schools is also a factor in this - many of our local secondaries are at least 5 form intake, and the smaller ones are higher up the league tables.

I don't know any other parents in my area who care about the performance of the schools.

Seriously. They're either posh and will pay/ do grammar or they're just not interested.

So no possibility of collective action here.

Bubble, mine are too little, but I can imagine doing just this when they're bigger.

Although I did say half-jokingly to DH only this morning "I wonder if the Government would give us the money it costs to educate the boys in state schools and we'll send them private and pay the difference".

Good luck with it!

Caligula, I think you've highlighted a common problem.

And it's a lot to ask a parent to take such a risk with their child's education for the sake of the greater good.

Hunker - the Headmaster of a London private school (St Paul's, I think) was on the radio the other day saying that he wanted to offer places at state education prices and ask the local authority to pay but he wasn't allowed to by Government.

I rememeber Diane Abbott, when she had a son at primary school, heckling tories in the media for choosing private education.

A bad move, with hindsight?

bubble, i am dreading when it comes to dd1 secondry shcool choices (and dd2+3 of course). atm she is in a lovely state primary, does very well, parents supportive etc. but here we have a choice of 3 secondry schools.

one is good, one is ok one ir down right poor. and guess which one i live marginally closer to

Oh, agree with you, Satine, had a nasty experience of two v. bad comps myself. One openly sink school and one that was a very desirable ex-grammar but actually even worse in terms of bullying. I ended up going private, against my mother's principles. But the state option was dangerous (the school refused to do anything about bullying).

Me too, Edam - I went to a huge comp for a (mercifully short) while and it bloody scared the pants off me.

Politicians and their 'do as I say but not as I do' stance re: education .

Good enough for your child but not for mine.

misdee. Our local school is crap. Mixed sex and the girls, in particular are terrifying.

if i want dd1 to go to an all girls state school, well it involves sending her to hatfield, and i witnessed many catfights in town bwteen the girls at the school. so no no way!

secondry education scares me