Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

If Labour win... are your DCs coming out of Private Education?

394 replies

MrsJamesMathews · 04/06/2017 00:29

Sitting here doing some maths.

It's not looking great.

With increased corporation tax and VAT on school fees, I think we'll be having some very awkward conversations with our DCs schools on Friday.

Anyone else worried?

OP posts:
clickityclackpack · 05/06/2017 10:09

We couldn't absorb a hike of 20%. Our son has ASD and goes to a small private school. But we didn't even have the option of a local school anyway as we fell into a black hole in London. So what am I suppose to do? Travel on public transport with my five year old an hour there and back to an overcrowded crap school that can't meet his needs while he screams the bus down because of the sensory overload? Honestly we will move country first. I won't put him through it. It may sound dramatic but then it would if you haven't had the pleasure of an autistic child having a complete meltdown.

Only1scoop · 05/06/2017 10:14

We could afford it but will move DC back into a state and we will pay for tutoring if God Forbid they get in.

pottered · 05/06/2017 10:15

we were strongly considering private for secondary, 20% would put it totally out of reach though. Agree with others - we'll pay for tutoring and cut our work hours, so yes, if Corbyn got in, it'd likely cause him to get less of our tax.

DH is in the bracket where if he cuts his hours, he'll pay a lot less tax and if it's cheaper for him to do that then...

Also I'll probably ditch the car, so that's spending that won't happen.

IfYouGoDownToTheWoodsToday · 05/06/2017 10:16

Especially shit and galling when your SEN child will now struggle even more because of budget cuts to state schools, put in place by a government voted in by the vast majority of parents who use private schools

So very true.

We run our own company and I'm very happy to pay more Corporation tax to provide more money for Education, NHS and the Police. Obviously quite a few aren't, because they have the attitude 'I am ok, fuck everyone else'

Posters on this thread moaning about having to pay 11 million in tax, in a time of very LOW taxation, oh my goodness,, just listen to yourself! Get a fucking grip and try to connect with how the vast majority of people in this world live. You are so very privileged.

I have never voted Labour, JC actually worries me but I hope he gets in because there are a section of society in this country who really do not have a grip on reality. Things need re balancing ASAP.

MrsJamesMathews · 05/06/2017 10:20

There's no need to be facetious simply because you don't like someone else's personal lifestyle choices.

People are talking about a nanny losing her job, £Ms in taxes leaving the country, new jobs not being created and happy settled children being uprooted as the possible ramifications of VAT added to school fees. You might not like, understand or have any empathy for these issues, but issues they are and very serious for those involved.

I feel quite strongly that the exceptional opportunities my DC get at their private schools should damn well be the basic standard available to all children through state education. But that unfortunately is not the case. And I don't believe 615,000 children. pouring out of private education and in to state schools is somehow going to change that.

I'm not a politician and I'm not a martyr. So I do the best I can for my family. I can't look after everyone else's too. I'm not going to apologise for that.

I wouldn't dream of being so arrogant, conceited and rude as to even think less of someone for choosing state schools for their children, let alone openly criticise them for it.

OP posts:
elevenclips · 05/06/2017 10:26

Add me to the very long list of people with a dc in non selective private due to ASD. Corbyn will absolutely destroy us.

WhatHaveIFound · 05/06/2017 10:27

We can just about manage the extra 20% so my DC will be staying at private school if Labour get in on Thursday. To be fair we've only got another 3 years with DD and then hopefully she'd benefit from no university tuition fees.

As much as i dislike JC (and some of his policies would hit us as a family/small business), he has a lot of sensible ideas and i believe he's our best hope for the NHS.

pottered · 05/06/2017 10:30

i don't think he's our best hope - he's our best hope of rising unemployment, for sure. I wouldn't spend the tuition money yet - that policy is going to be like whiplash, if it lasts 5 years I'll be amazed.

Successive govts have made fools of themselves over tuition fees and the NHS isn't going to get any more affordable any time soon with our aging population.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim · 05/06/2017 10:31

Yes elevenclips - and there's a vile group on this website who will cheer as he does it.
How someone can come on to a thread with parents saying we go private because of DCs SN and then sneer " the rich people are having a wobble" beggars belief. Who has it in them to be so foul? What do they get out of it?

gillybeanz · 05/06/2017 10:33

I too think Corbyn will be best for the country, even though my dd will be heartbroken if we can't afford her fees.
I'm hoping that the increase will be small for us, as although fees will go up they might not lower the support offered by much.
I work already but it's a pt min wage job. Full time isn't offered but overtime is regular.
If it's thousands though, no way will we afford it, even with my overtime Sad

I wish people would not come on these threads to have a go at those with more money/ different choices to them.
It has come to something when a Labour Policy favours the very wealthy at a cost to the mc and wc.

IfYouGoDownToTheWoodsToday · 05/06/2017 10:35

"Yes elevenclips - and there's a vile group on this website who will cheer as he does it.
How someone can come on to a thread with parents saying we go private because of DCs SN and then sneer " the rich people are having a wobble" beggars belief. Who has it in them to be so foul? What do they get out of it?"

I don't think posters are attacking those with SN children. I'm certainly not.

And OP your last post is hysterical nonsense.

pottered · 05/06/2017 10:37

perhaps if labour do get in, those with SN children should lobby their MPs for an exemption to the VAT due to poor public provision.

clickityclackpack · 05/06/2017 10:37

If he appeared to put more thought into this policy then maybe he'd have more luck at the polls. If there was an exemption for all current students so that their lives weren't disrupted and it gave time for everyone to adjust including the private schools - he'd have my vote. Make an exemption for special needs kids - he'd have my vote. But he doesn't seem to give a damn. He's just got a bee in his ideological bonnet and he's going to do all he can to shut down private schools with little thought.

minifingerz · 05/06/2017 10:37

"People are talking about a nanny losing her job, £Ms in taxes leaving the country, new jobs not being created and happy settled children being uprooted as the possible ramifications of VAT added to school fees. You might not like, understand or have any empathy for these issues, but issues they are and very serious for those involved"

Given that these are the people who - overwhelmingly - have voted for a government which is destroying the morale of teachers in the public sector and damaging the life chances of some of the most vulnerable, poorly supported children in the UK....

I'm sorry for your children if they have to move schools.

I'm sorry for my children that teachers at their schools are being sacked and their class sizes are increasing. On balance I think the 93% of children in state schools have more to lose with a Tory government than the 7% of extremely well supported, mostly middle class, mostly high achieving children in private schools have to lose with a Labour one.

CivQueen · 05/06/2017 10:39

On balance I think the 93% of children in state schools have more to lose with a Tory government than the 7% of extremely well supported, mostly middle class, mostly high achieving children in private schools have to lose with a Labour one

Exactly.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 05/06/2017 10:40

I'm sorry for my children that teachers at their schools are being sacked and their class sizes are increasing. On balance I think the 93% of children in state schools have more to lose with a Tory government than the 7% of extremely well supported, mostly middle class, mostly high achieving children in private schools have to lose with a Labour one.

This.

pottered · 05/06/2017 10:43

Couldn't agree more clickety. There was a SIMPLE solution to funding primary and secondary education better:

Don't offer blanket free university tuition (huge middle class benefit), and put the £11+bn into primary and secondary so that ALL kids benefit, not just the 50% going on to university.

Have some targeted free tuition for nurses etc. not blanket stupidity.

IfYouGoDownToTheWoodsToday · 05/06/2017 10:45

On balance I think the 93% of children in state schools have more to lose with a Tory government than the 7% of extremely well supported, mostly middle class, mostly high achieving children in private schools have to lose with a Labour one

.Well said Mini.

And if you do not "get" what Mini has posted, then you really are an over privileged idiot person.

minifingerz · 05/06/2017 10:46

"I wish people would not come on these threads to have a go at those with more money/ different choices to them."

Can you not see that the inequality and social divisiveness created and perpetuated by the existence of private schools is a cultural and political problem which impacts on the life chances of children? It's not just about the individual lifestyle choices of adults - it's about fairness towards children.

To repeat the sentiments of Alan Bennet:

"Private education is not fair. Those who provide it know it. Those who pay for it know it. Those who have to sacrifice in order to purchase it know it. And those who receive it know it, or should. And if their education ends without it dawning on them, then that education has been wasted.

"My objection to private education is simply put. It is not fair. And to say that nothing is fair is not an answer. Governments, even this one, exist to make the nation's circumstances more fair, but no government, whatever its complexion, has dared to tackle private education."

And at last here is a politician who is prepared to acknowledge this and to begin to work towards reducing inequality of opportunity for children.

I bloody love Jeremy Corbyn.

user235 · 05/06/2017 10:46

I'm sorry for my children that teachers at their schools are being sacked and their class sizes are increasing. On balance I think the 93% of children in state schools have more to lose with a Tory government than the 7% of extremely well supported, mostly middle class, mostly high achieving children in private schools have to lose with a Labour one.

I largely agree with that but this policy is not about funding teachers or reducing class sizes, it's about putting a huge cost on some families to give free lunches to others. The disadvantage to the private school families seems utterly out of proportion with the benefit that comes from giving lunches to those who are not already eligible for free school meals. So it seems purely ideological and done in a way that has disregard for the impact on children at private school with no talk of the kinds of adjustment that clickity mentions above.

Two4One2017 · 05/06/2017 10:49

Don't offer blanket free university tuition (huge middle class benefit), and put the £11+bn into primary and secondary so that ALL kids benefit, not just the 50% going on to university.

Completely agree...problem is, all those people that go to university can vote, so what better way to garner support than offer them a freebie. So, sod the 50% that don't go to university, and sod the real problem which is pre school, primary and secondary education.

pottered · 05/06/2017 10:54

Alan Bennett - I love history boys. He's a grammar school boy, effectively he got a free selective education, so he can pontificate beautifully about the unfairness of private schools.

Exactly Two, I see free tuition as a huge unaffordable mistake at the expense of the other 50%. Makes a mockery of the 'for the many, not the few' thing.

KeepCalm74 · 05/06/2017 10:55

Needing support in school for SEN and NOT GETTING IT is not fair. Many of you are forgetting that several of us would dearly love to educate our children in the state sector and tried hard for SIX years and got no help, watched our children sink and have had to scrape to get them what they need. This was nothing to do with avoiding our children being educated with, what did someone sneeringly think we call state school children, vile oiks? Shame on you. The lack of SEN provision is not going to change overnight. And as a campaigning middle class parent I can assure you it takes more than that to bring up standards in a school. This is throwing my kids under the bus.

Somerville · 05/06/2017 10:55

Get a grip, OP. The VAT rise won't mean huge numbers of children leaving private education because governing bodies will not want to see their numbers fall and their schools ultimately close down. So all schools with their books balanced will find cuts to make and readjust their capital spending plans, so that they can lower fees a bit to cancel it out.

Unfortunately one of those cuts will be services they offer local state schools, and also bursaries like one of my DC is on. So during the few years before the VAT rise happens, it may be that a Labour government would change their mind.

If not, then bursary kids like mine will likely be leaving. And also kids of families who have already commited every penny - but they'd have had to leave the next time the schoo hiked the fees up anyway! And class sizes will increase a bit for everyone, probabaly, as some staff will lose their jobs. (Sad of course, but they'll have plenty of choice of jobs in the public sector where they're badly needed.)

Yes, this VAT plan will hit my family. However I'm still voting Labour, for the first time in a long time, because the alternative means an education system, health system and security system already on their knees will break entirely.

Plus, some of my DC are in state schools so I see the disparity between the education on offer, and how the funding cuts are severely affecting educational provision.

So many parents at my son's school have told me that they recognise independent education increases divisions in society and that they only send their DC private because it's the best option in a bad, two tiered, system. My challenge to other parents who've chosen independent education who feel the same is that this is the chance to do something about that imbalance. The fact that we don't pay VAT on something that is very much a luxury means that this is fair, in my opinion.

MrsJamesMathews · 05/06/2017 10:57

Private schooling is not fair. Of course not. I for one never suggested otherwise.

All schools should be able to enjoy smaller class sizes, autonomy over their curriculum and the perks that naturally follow such as more time for sports, arts and differentiation. And SEN children should have access to appropriate schooling and support.

When Government (whichever party) eventually make education fair and all children can expect the above through the state system, I'll be first in the queue.

OP posts: