If Labour win... are your DCs coming out of Private Education?

[MrsJamesMathews]

Sitting here doing some maths.

It's not looking great.

With increased corporation tax and VAT on school fees, I think we'll be having some very awkward conversations with our DCs schools on Friday.

Anyone else worried?

I doubt we'd even get places at our over-subscribed local schools.

The corporation tax would be staggered to 2020 and any VAT increase wouldn't be immediate.

In time for April though, no?

Don't know. Not sure of timescales or transitional arrangements. I'm more worried about my October deadline for my SEN dc applying for secondary school and being given an inappropriate school because her current state school can't find enough money to justify an EHCP so we may have to remortgage to find a private school or HE.

Yes my DC are in private school because the local state schools could not meet their SEN. We struggle all the time to pay. There is an assumption that we have made some sort of entitled choice. My eldest DS had stopped speaking. What are we supposed to Do?

Can't find enough money?! Is that really how it works? That's awful.

If you've not already looked, your local HE community will likely have a Facebook page you could ask to join. HE families are mostly a very friendly and supportive bunch. High proportion with SEN children too.

Any vat on fees couldn't happen until after we leave the EU, from what I understand, so two years plus at least.

Corporation tax increase would be bad for us. We're in the fortunate position that our school fees are halved after July. (eldest leaves)

Yes I know about HE. It would mean a drop of 30k in salary for me though.
I promise you it's how it works now. You used to get a statement according to need. Now it's according to money. Dd is one of the G&T pupils with autism. She has terrible anxiety. School have referred her to CAHMS but they're so stretched that we won't get an appointment anytime soon. We are pursuing that privately. Our catchment school is deemed appropriate. She has Sensory Processing Disorder and will not wear the very specific uniform. That's for starters.

Couldn't HE - I have severe health problems and never know if I will be able to barely function one day to next. I agree with all kids being entitled to a good education - I just think this policy is misunderstanding the number of SEN kids in private education because their needs cannot be adequately met by their state school - and the fact that the parents scrape every day to make it possible. Ironically I am a lifelong labour supporter!

Keep I've been voting Labour for 30 years :) and your dc should be getting the education they need

I think Labour has seriously underestimated how many families only 'just about' manage to pay for private education - for whatever reason.

The state schools are already over-crowed and under-funded and SEN children aren't getting their needs met. Corbyn reckons he'll be fixing that. But is he planning on finding the money to fix these issues and support the increase in numbers after the 'just about' families have to come out of private schools?

I don't think he's really thought this through.

I don't think you understand the state education position. SEN dc are being failed now and the current government has further cuts in place for at least 3 more years. It will get much, much worse.
The Labour position stops the further cuts and increases funding. Stops the free school and grammar school money pit. I don't know if they'll allow LAs to open new schools (I hope so) to meet demand. If your dc do have to come out of private school then hopefully they can go into a class of 30 funded properly. And my dd can stay in state education supported to become a middle or higher rate tax payer.

My only silver lining if JC wins is my DC has just finished private education and is moving into university. he and i are both voting Conservative because we both put the betterment of the country above our own personal position.

Tbh our local schools are failing all kids not just SEN so we are saving up for private. We are living off my husband's pension and saving my salary for school fees. We have 2 children under 8 so paying VAT on fees will be a massive additional tax for us. No thankyou.

Well, my DD began school under a labour govt. There still weren't any schools in the state sector that met her needs, exploded cloud, so I don't see how there magically would be should labour get in
There was plenty of early years provision, yes, but our local ones were so huge and chaotic, she had meltdowns at every one we viewed. (Hfasd, sensory issues etc)

Any vat on fees couldn't happen until after we leave the EU, from what I understand, so two years plus at least.

That is wrong. EU rules mean that once we have started charging VAT on something we can't stop but there is nothing in EU rules to prevent us charging VAT on school fees whenever we want. And I see nothing in the Labour manifesto regarding timing on the Corporation Tax changes or VAT on school fees. ExplodedCloud may be right about timing or the changes could be in an emergency budget shortly after the election.

My view is that adding VAT to school fees will probably lead to many independent schools closing. They aren't generally operating on the kind of margins that would allow them to absorb the increase so they would have to pass most if not all of it on to parents. For many parents who are struggling to afford the fees this will be the final straw.

Even if charging VAT had no effect on the numbers attending independent schools it would not raise enough to fund free school meals for all primary school pupils as claimed in the Labour manifesto.

But Labour are commited to ending university fees. That's an enormous bonus.

Mine won't be as we are down to one set of fees but they would be if we were still paying for two of them.

Molly - ending tuition fees is not an enormous bonus, a review of tuition fees is needed with some courses fully funded e.g. Nursing, midwifery, teaching, medicine but we should not be removing tuition fees for all students. Those who want to further their education should be taking very some responsibility for paying for it. Perhaps not at £9k a year but absolutely not for free for everyone.

It's really very worrying for us. I'm putting off buying new uniform for September.

One of ours schools may be big enough to absorb costs but they are also very selective, assessing double the children they take so I don't suppose they will buckle on the fees.

The other one is a small country indy. If they lose 10% of children they may well need to close. Cue 300 children all of a sudden needing school places for September.

Labour won't win, particularly as there's been another terrorist attack.

VAT is already charged on certain education with state schools and 'other eligible bodies' exempt. The 'eligible bodies' is a UK govt definition which includes private schools can easily be changed. Probably only need a statutory instrument rather than legislation so a budget may not even be necessary.

THat policy would be extremely hard to implement IMO. Not everything in manifestos happens.

I would be v worried about schools with small numbers already, with brexit etc it seems likely that those kinds of schools will struggle, assuming no VAT.

His sums just don't add up. He is working on the assumption that all parents who send their children to private school can afford a 20% hike in fees. We can't so here's what will happen:

Based on two children at £12,000 pa, Corbyn would be collecting £4,800 in tax. We can't afford that so our children move to state education (if there's a space) at a cost to the government at £4,000 per child. So the cost to the government for my children leaving private school is £12,800 per annum (being the loss in VAT and cost of state school place).

But I have an extra £24,000 per annum in my pocket (which is already net of tax so they can't tax further) which I can spend on moving to an area with "the best" schools, therefore taking away places from children who would previously have got in. I can also afford tutoring in abundance and a wealth of extra curricular activities, wonderful holidays and experiences so my little precious children can have the best in life.

There really are no winners. My children get pulled out of the right school for them, classrooms get fuller having a huge impact on all, arguably those best performing schools get even better results and the social divide gets bigger still.

Until the existing issues with funding in the state sector are addressed then this policy can never work.

He is working on the assumption that the decision to go private is based purely on snob value. Just goes to show how out of touch he really is with the world. How can he justify a policy that leaves me £24,000 better off but the government £12,800 worse off???? Bonkers.

But Labour are committed to ending university fees. That's an enormous bonus

As we can see in Scotland, this is a policy whereby the tax burden on low earners increases in order to fund university education for the middle classes. Since tuition fees were ended in Scotland the proportion of children from deprived backgrounds going to university has fallen.

Universities have to be funded. If it isn't through a graduate tax (which is what the current loan system is in reality) it will mean we all have to pay higher taxes. I'm not saying that is necessarily a bad thing but you need to consider this when deciding if it is a good policy.