HELP!!

[lousymum]

Apologies for the cheap sensationalist thread title, but I really need some help from sage old MNers.

I posted this thread last week about my ds1, who is 4.7 and at nursery school five mornings a week. I had a meeting with his teacher this morning, following last week's conversation about ds1's behaviour/abilities etc, and I need help interpreting what was said.

Initially she said that she had been talking to the headmaster (as we had agreed). She then said "In schools there is a thing called a Gifted and Talented register, but of course we wouldn't be looking at that at this age, although obviously he is very advanced in many areas".

Then she said that they had decided to to an IEP (Individual Education Plan) for him which would involve filming him for ten-minute periods, writing down bullet-point targets for him, having semi-formal meetings with me and dh every 6 weeks and asking us to keep records of his behaviour/our strategies at home. She talked a lot about his social skills and his ability to sit down, take turns, play and interact normally with the other children etc. She said that initially the plan would be for her as his keyworker, the head, and the SENCO (who is another teacher who ds1 really likes, I had noticed her having more involvement with him but wasn't sure why). She mentioned again that it might lead to an ed psych assessment, to which I said I would prefer to delay that for as long as possible.

So I'm confused - are they telling me they think he has SN, or his behaviour is so bad that they cannot manage him, or that they think he is emotionally disturbed?

I know I sound very ignorant, but I am worried, and I feel like a crap parent. I feel as though they are implementing martial law because I am failing him.

So I don't really

So I'm confused

.

i know how you feel! it's confusing. my ds(5) has an IEP. loads of children have them now.

the cynical part of me thinks it's so they can all be institutionalised and the same in year one, then other days i think it's probably doing some good.

But what are they for SEA? Are they a SN thing, or is it about managing bad behaviour? I'm not really sure what to expect.

.

for my son it's a one to one chance to get his skills up to the same level ie: holding a pencil correctly and socialising with other children better also understanding words like 'under' 'on' etc. i'll try and find his latest report.

Thanks SEA.

Does anyone else have any experience? I'd be very grateful.

bumping again

ok found it. these are some of the headings:

areas of strenghts:
knows all letters/can spell his name/recognises numbers/enjoys praise and stickers

areas of concern:
when confronted about an incident, he will admit what happened but does not understand why it's wrong, shows no remorse
poor concentration span!

then they give your child targets (my sons are):
to understand concepts of 'one of' 'first'
for him to take a series of 3-4 turns with a peer during a structured activity with minimal support.

then when each target is met, new ones are given. i hope this helps you understand, obviously your child's will be different to mine!

Thanks SEA, that gives me more of an idea of how it's structured and what it's for.

I suppose I feel a bit upset that it looks as if ds1 is being labelled as SN before he even starts school. I don't want to offend anyone in saying that, I just don't really understand why this is happening or whether I should be trying to stop it.

Lousymum (change name). I would definately go with the nursery on this. I work in secondary school and see so many children fall through the system without getting the help they need. At this stage i don't think they are trying to say anything. Basically the IEP will help everyone work with your son in addressing his needs at the moment. It is NO reflection on you. These IEP'S are evolving things and as he reaches targets will change. These may be behaviour focused to start with but may go towards the gifted and talented aspect as he matures and learns to handle his emotions better. As for seeing the ED psyche it may just help you understand your child better and equally better prepare nursery in how to help him. These appointments are not easy to get.

Oh marvellous, I've blown my cover

Oh well, I still need the help under this name!

But Lilyloo, he's not even at school yet, he doesn't start reception till September, and none of the other children in his group have an IEP. I'm worried he will now arrive at school with a label round his neck, and I'm not really sure what they are driving at - is it because he is "advanced" in some areas, or is it because he has poorly developed social skills? FWIW although I have had concerns myself about some aspects of his behaviour, I didn't think he was so difficult at nursery it constituted a SEN. I feel a bit out of my depth.

G&T is Special Needs!!!!

SEN doesn't always mean dyslexia, behaviour probs etc, it also means very able! Some places may just call it G&T rather than SEN!
Don't get your knickers in a twist! I have been taching for years in a school with a very good G&T programme.

All an IEP is, is a record of what targets your dc should be aiming for,and includes some info for his teachers.

HTH!

also at the top is says:

when working with smallsea please remember:
consider whether writing is an objective for the session. smallsea needs an adult to scribe for him when this is not the objective.

smallsea needs to develop his understanding and use of verbs within the class routine eg. 'counting' 'cutting' writing'.

this report is from last october, one bit that has just made me laugh is that he licks other children! since this report though, his behaviour has got so much better and he likes school and is doing much better socially.

Sorry completely misread post!!

From what you said it sounds as if they are talking about both. I wouldn't think of it as a label as by the time he starts school he may no longer need an IEP. IMO i think it's fantastic that your nursery are so positive in trying to help your DS. I would reccomend you asking for appointment to see the SENCO as i know your not on your own feeling out of your depth in this and get her to clarify for you exactly what they are planning.

He is only four though, shouldn't they just be letting him play? I don't understand why he needs an individual education plan if most of what they do isn't formally educational.

I'm not trying to upset any mums of SN children, nor am I trying to push ds1 forward as G&T (awful idea anyway IMO), I am just worried that things are going in a direction I don't really understand, and also worried that if his social behaviour at 4 is thought to be such a problem that it required formal intervention, then 1) what will it be like when he is at school, and 2) WHAT am I doing wrong? I know my own social skills aren't brilliant, but I didn't think ds1 was that awful!

i thought exactly the same as you, and still do to some extent. they explained to me that the younger they start the better the results.

year one is when the hard work begins. the schools (or the government) want them all to be at the same stages to learn. (imo!)

i sometimes feel that our 4 and 5 year olds are analysed too much. i'd still just like him to play more at school, but then again he doesn't seem to mind the attention!

Just to clarify You are doing nothing wrong. You may find that when he get's to school his social skills are fine. As you say he is only very young. I definately think you need to go back to nursery and discuss your concerns with them. An IEP is only giving him targets to work on which will be very simple.

Have gone back to look at post. One thing that might help yoy is, his behaviour sounds indicative of a very able child. Especially if he is bored because not being stretched enough.

Re ed psych, as a teacher and parent of child with SEN, my advice would be to get it dones asap, rather than delay it. It is not about labelling a child, it is about helping. The EP may find your son is a very vey able child which could be what is leading to his behaviour problems. Gather as much info as poss as soon as poss, rather than put it off. I understand why you want to, but he will benefit much more from finding out exactly what he needs.

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it. I know they have his best interests at heart, they are very good with him, and they do seem to understand him so if they think this is a good idea then I suppose it must be. It was a bit of a kick in the guts though, I feel a bit out of control.

I think it's so important not to get caught up in a fear of 'labels'. It's also a bit ironic how many other MNetters elsewhere on MN are battling to get their child 'statemented' so as to get access to the specialist help their child needs! If an IEP or a SN type statement gives you, Greensleeves, access to the type of professionals (and, more to the point, legally obligates the school to provide this help!) who have seen such behaviours before and can offer strategies to help you and DS cope, all the better. It'll be a two way process, you can ask them the questions, express your fears etc- and no, your child won't be 'labelled for life'. My DS2 is 5 and has an in-school statement. This flags the fact he's quite immature for his age and doesn't join in well. Without this SN 'flag' he could well slip under the radar only to emerge at 11 as what we used to jeer at as 'remedial'. As it is, in group work, the teacher makes sure my DS sits next to her etc so he can't not participate! We're seeing improvement already and expect him to be taken off the in-school 'register' at the end of this year (1). You'll be amazed at how many other kids, even if they don't start Recept with some sort of 'label' will aquire one during the course of the year! It shows they're doing their job. And as for being too young, detecting issues if indeed there ARE any at 4 to 5 is a very good time to begin formal observation if not intervention. Remember also that their 'playing' is a very important part of their beginning to learn interaction, structure, integration, and just because it isn't 'formal' it doesn't mean it isn't equally important and a time when an experienced teacher can spot the early warning signs of an SN. Whatever happens, I wish you luck as it's a deeply scary time. FWIW, my DS1, now 7 was seeing a consultant paed for 18 months from 12 months old with a real possibility of a ASD diagnosis. He's still not the world's greatest socialiser (nor's his father, I might add!) but he settled down and 'grew out of it', but I recall the sleepless nights we had when we were wondering what on earth was WRONG with DS?

Thank you miljee. Lots of food for thought for me there.

I would view it as a positive thing that they are lookig at him as an individual rather than trying to analyse whether it is a "good" thing or a "bad" thing. And don't write off ed psych assessments either. I've known children who were very bright who have gone through a similar process and discovered that there are aspects of their learning which are different from other peoples. I would interpret what they are saying is that "ds1 clearly is bright with a lot of potential, and we need to work on some skills now to enable him to fulfil his potential in a classroom environment". Reading between the lines I suspect that his learning in the home environment has been terrfic, and he is probably very able, but he will need help adapting to an environment where he is one of 20 or 30 children. It is definitely not a knock on your parnting - if anything you have brought him along so far that he is "uneven" in terms of the various skills that they are looking to bring out in the Foundation Stage.

Also an IEP can be a positive start in reception. Many parents can be baffled by what is expected during reception, but you will effectively have a head start

I agree with Exbury on your other thread - I would suggest that he is bored at nursery, the children thre are no real companions for him as he is intellectually ahead of them, whatever his emotional state. I am not surprised he won't sit still at group time if it is basic stuff that bores him.

My ds (Nov 02 baby) was exactly the same when he started at nursery which put them into their 'year groups' rather than '3-5' groups. He then suddenly became in a group of children younger then him, less advanced (I have a dd not much older than him and he copies her) and not emotionally able to communicate on his level.

They were learning to look at a picture of a fish and realise it was a fish (increasing vocabulary) whereas he was teaching himslef to read fish at just 3. He went through the same frustration, clinginess etc at home, altho at nursery they say he was fine!!
Luckily we were able to do the same as Exbury and he is now in Reception and thriving.

Is there any way you can expand his interests at home? My dd is learning the piano and really loves it, plus they both swim, and do football at weekends.

If you can get some simple reading books (as he is already writing things like 'chocolate' and 'I love you') then he could learn to read. I found the Jolly Phonics DVD and finger phonics books excellent - I had them for dd and ds just used to watch and follow too, but as there was no pressure he felt like he was playing. Once they can read, they then read books for pleasure and it is amazing what they can pick up - my dd lokes non fiction books so we have the set of Dorling Kindersley Eyewonder with loads of fascinating facts, and also the Kingfisher Young knowledge. Ds loves them too and they really enjoy 'telling' me some new fact!

Also is there anywhere you could take him in the afternoons where there may be older children for him to interact with - if he is the oldest in nursery it must be hard for him.

I would go with all the help that they are offering you, but make sure you have a great deal of input and the IEP is shaped the way you think is best. If you try working with him on things to keep his active brain happy, tell them what keeps him interested and make sure they do it - I had a comment that they 'were not allowed' to let ds have books to read at nursery!!!!!

Any 'work' you can do at home will also help as he will be happier to 'play' in nursery or learn from their topics. My dd is Year 1 still loves working at home and we reguallry do Jolly Grammar and maths work way ahead of the school work; she is happy with this as it keeps her progressing as she wants to and means she can enjoy the topic work and extend her knowledge from that. We often go on the interenet and expand on these, and when she takes this back into shcool to show her teqacher the praise helps her self confidence as her perfectionist streak shows itslef in lack of confidence in group situations, particualry with adults!!

Take it slow and steady and celebrate all successes - a real problem with these children is their brain is way ahead of their physical abilities hence the anxiousness about getting it right, so all your praise for what they do well really helps with this. I am sure you know this but it is good to praise what they do eg "you really concentrated hard on forming that 'l' correctly" (even if the result is appallling lol), or 'I am so pleased that you tried your best with that XXX' so they begin to understand what is required in class. Lots of cutting and sticking and colouring (if he likes that) can hone fine motor skills for writing and phonics will help with reading and spelling. Ther eare plenty of basic maths books around too if he likes that.

Also i am afraid you need to be prepared for Reception year to be a difficult one unless you can sort out the intellectual needs / companionship issue as it is not until Year 1 that a lot of these children really get the higher level work they need to keep them fulfilled.

I imagine now I will get lots of comments about 'hothousing' but I am not advocating that at all - just keeping his active brain properly fed with what it needs to enable him to concentrate on being a happy little boy.

I wish you the best of luck and hope it all works out.

PS apologies it is rather long